Heaven and Earth

oooops.. i ade a mess of my reply.

pano ba mag quote ng bawat reply ng isang poster?.

.avoid irrelevant/insulting words ako pagdating dito e...apprecaite it..

thanks

??

mag practice ba/....lolx..sorry.

OneJack wrote:

Kung opinion lang ang gusto mo, makinig ka sa mga taong sasagot sa tanong na iyan, pero kung gusto mo ng tamang kasagutan, isa lang ang makasasagot diyan, ang Dios lang iyon na katabi mo ngayon.

How mystical naman!

vril wrote:

hala! mumu......

Hala ka, baka ma mumu ka nga eh mabagsakan ka ng butiki.

vril wrote:
I don't know what you mean?

Saang supot ng tinapa mo nabasa iyong definition na iyon?

vril wrote:I guess you are an Atenian, aren't you?

What's an atenian?

A typical-modern day- non-believer in God. Parang jejemon, ngayon lang ito.

vril wrote:So is heaven and pradise different?

It is like John 10:30.

vril wrote:

This is where everything falls apart... Lucifer who was with god in heaven sinned. He actually committed the first sin..not Adam. And since he was with god, he is in heaven. Sin was committed in heaven. So to those who wants to go to heaven with god, there is no guarantee that you will not sin again.... .....unless freewill is removed..... teka...nalalabuan na ako. Ano ba talga plano?

Here is my opinion.

Genesis 1
1:1 In the beginning, God created heaven and earth.
1:2 But the earth was empty and unoccupied, and darknesses were over the face of the abyss; and so the Spirit of God was brought over the waters.
1:3 And God said, “Let there be light.” And light became.

In one sense, Heaven is the place where the blessed have the Beatific Vision of God(a gift like freewill seeing the True God). This Heaven is beyond Time and Place; it has a beginning and an end (when the new Heaven and new earth are created). But it is beyond Time, and so one cannot say "when" it was created. However, we can consider when persons first entered Heaven from time.

When the angels were created, they were not in Heaven. No one can have the Beatific Vision of God and no one can go to Heaven, not even angels, except through Christ. The angels were at first in heaven in the sense of the heavens. They were created in a state of sanctifying grace, so that their souls were ordered toward God as the highest good. They were all sinless for some length of time though time for angels is not the same as for human persons (because they are pure spirit).

The angels were tested by God, by being shown the plan of God for humanity, that God would become a man, and suffer and die. Human persons are part spirit and part matter; whereas angels are pure spirit. So angels have a greater nature. Some angels sinned out of pride, when asked to worship God made man, because human nature is less than angelic nature. The humble holy angels worshipped Christ. Thereafter, they entered Heaven and were given the Beatific Vision of God. But Satan and
the rest of the angels refused to worship Christ, and so they lost the state of grace and became devils.

So in order for the angels to even understand the test, they would have to have some knowledge of what matter is, and of the various lower animals, so that they could then be given to understand that mankind would be created (an animal with a rational soul), and that God would become man. Therefore, the material universe was created before the test whereby some angels fell from grace, and the rest of the angels entered Heaven.

First, God created the angels, and secondly the material universe, and thirdly mankind. For God would not begin creation with what is lesser, but with what is greater. Also God acts in the material universe often through the angels, who are ministers of His providence. And so the angels had to be created first, so that they would then assist in the unfolding of the material universe.

And once the angels were created, then they were shown the first part of God's plan, to create the material universe. And they were each given a role in that plan for the material universe, to guide its development over a long period of time. Hence, Satan is also called Lucifer, because of his original role in the material universe, having something to do with light.

Some length of time occurred before the angels were tested by God by being shown the plan of God to become man (spirit and matter). When they were tested, and some fell, this was before the creation of mankind. For Adam and Eve were tempted in Paradise by a fallen angel (Satan).

Those angel who fell from grace and became devils were not always devils. When they were created by God, they were sinless and holy and in a state of grace. And they continued in that state perhaps for a very long time, perhaps even billions of years, as the Universe unfolded. And this explains why, after falling from grace, there is no possibility for a devil to repent and return to grace (as human persons may do). For they were holy and in a state of grace, having some knowledge of God (though not the Beatific Vision), for a very long time. And yet they chose pride over God.

the above is a theological opinion. It is an open question.

element_115x wrote:

How mystical naman!

Hala ka... Kuya Element...

Saang supot ng tinapa mo nabasa iyong definition na iyon?

sa supot ng tinapa ni aling nena.... ......ikaw saang supot ng suman mo nabasa ang definition mo ng heaven...

A typical-modern day- non-believer in God. Parang jejemon, ngayon lang ito.

so ano tawag sa typical believer in jejemon terms?

marami akong matututunan sayo bro

vril wrote:sa supot ng tinapa ni aling nena.... ......ikaw saang supot ng suman mo nabasa ang definition mo ng heaven...

Galing iyon sa sangkalangitan kaya di puedeng biruin. Sa ibang bagay na lang ang biro, puede?

vril wrote:so ano tawag sa typical believer in jejemon terms?

marami akong matututunan sayo bro

Sorry ate, kasalukuyan pa lang pinagdedebatihan ng mga ejejs kung ano ang magiging official na tawag, baka sa katapusan ng mundo ay sakaling tapos na iyon, wait ka lang.

Galing iyon sa sangkalangitan kaya di puedeng biruin. Sa ibang bagay na lang ang biro, puede?

Ikaw ng unang nagbiro.... ...o hindi biro ang sayo?....

Sorry ate, kasalukuyan pa lang pinagdedebatihan ng mga ejejs kung ano ang magiging official na tawag, baka sa katapusan ng mundo ay sakaling tapos na iyon, wait ka lang.

ako na lang magbibigay..mukhang malabong matapos ang mundo...di na natin aabutin....

ok so ang typical believer in jejemon terms ay tawagin nating " phanatikwo"...ayus ba?

vril wrote:
Ikaw ng unang nagbiro.... ...o hindi biro ang sayo?....

Ang totoo ay puro biro lang ang sagot ko sa iyo, nagkataon lang na di ko inaasahan na ibabalik mo sa akin ang tanong na iyon. Dama ko kasi na hindi ka naniniwala sa Dios kaya pabiro ang pagkakasagot ko. Since hindi ko naman puedeng biruin ang isasagot ko sa tanong mo kaya ganoon ang pakiusap ko.

vril wrote:ako na lang magbibigay..mukhang malabong matapos ang mundo...di na natin aabutin....

ok so ang typical believer in jejemon terms ay tawagin nating " phanatikwo"...ayus ba?

Sige, totoo na at wala nang biro, okey ang panatiko, at kalimitan ito ay may mga sariling doktrina at katuruan. Pero ang panatiko ay hindi nasa iisang grupo lamang, kahit sa labas ng Kristianismo ay marami nito.