Re: Sabi nila ang mga aparasyon daw ni Mary ay ang diablo...

by Esther Wed Aug 18, 2010 10:18 am

12:00 lunch mmya gising na si Yidda.

by adanedhel Wed Aug 18, 2010 10:23 am

Right now there is a movement or more specifically a Holy Rosary Crusade for the determination of authenticity of the apparitions of Mary, Mediatrix of all-Grace at the Carmel of Lipa. For me as a non-witness of those apparitions it is safe to not to believe them until confirmed by the Church, but for those who believe in them it is also not wrong as long as the apparitions were able to deepen their faith and private prayer life, and not to superstition.

by **Ateo** Wed Aug 18, 2010 10:28 am

Yidda wrote:Approval of private revelations is of the temporal authority of the Church, so it is fallible and it is never irreformable. There is never a definitive and irrevocable decision from the Church that a private revelation is true, not even from the Pope or the Holy See or any Bishop.

What is the basis in the scripture or RCC document?

by Yidda Wed Aug 18, 2010 8:10 pm

adanedhel wrote:Right now there is a movement or more specifically a Holy Rosary Crusade for the determination of authenticity of the apparitions of Mary, Mediatrix of all-Grace at the Carmel of Lipa. For me as a non-witness of those apparitions it is safe to not to believe them until confirmed by the Church, but for those who believe in them it is also not wrong as long as the apparitions were able to deepen their faith and private prayer life, and not to superstition.

For the believers:
His Holiness, Pope Urban VIII stated: "In cases which concern private revelations, it is better to believe than not to believe, for, if you believe, and it is proven true, you will be happy that you have believed, because our Holy Mother asked it. If you believe, and it should be proven false, you will receive all blessings as if it had been true, because you believed it to be true."

But in my opinion Lipa apparition is certainly false. In many true private revelations, Mary refers to her self as: Mediatrix or as Mediatrix of Grace but never as Mediatrix of All Grace because she is in fact not the Mediatrix of ALL graces.

She knows this truth well, since the graces she is not Mediatrix of are the most important ones, those to Christ and herself. Notice that only in false private revelations does Mary call herself Mediatrix of ALL grace.The Virgin Mary would never call herself this because she is in fact not the Mediatrix of all grace. She is not the mediatrix of graces received by Christ's human nature from his Divine nature within the hypostatic union. For this would violate the dogma of the hypostatic union. Also, if Mary were Christ's mediatrix, then she would be greater than him. So that phrase: "I am the Mediatrix of All Grace" would be heretical and self-exalting and completely abhorrant to Mary.

"Your prophets have seen false and foolish things for you. And they have not laid open your iniquity, to provoke you to repentance. Yet they have seen for you false revelations and banishments.(Lamenations 2:14).

by Yidda Wed Aug 18, 2010 8:19 pm

Ateo wrote:

What is the basis in the scripture or RCC document?

The Faith is based on Tradition, Scripture, Magisterium, not private revelation.

The Magisterium does not give definitive or infallible rulings on claimed private revelations, because the Magisterium teaches from Tradition and Scripture. So while the Magisterium can condemn,even infallibly, an idea found in a private revelation, it cannot infallibly teach that a claimed private revelation is true or is false.

by adanedhel Wed Aug 18, 2010 8:43 pm

Yidda wrote:

For the believers:
His Holiness, Pope Urban VIII stated: "In cases which concern private revelations, it is better to believe than not to believe, for, if you believe, and it is proven true, you will be happy that you have believed, because our Holy Mother asked it. If you believe, and it should be proven false, you will receive all blessings as if it had been true, because you believed it to be true."

Di kaya delikado yan baka magkamali tayo? I know error is not a sin but it is dangerous. For example I'm a preacher and I preached an error...and many people believed in what I preached...

by Yidda Wed Aug 18, 2010 8:44 pm

adanedhel wrote:

Sis Yidda how about the Guadalupe and Fatima apparitions? Were they not declared by the Church as true? Sorry I'm not that knowledgeable about apparitions...

Yes Guadalupe is true. it is favored by the church: all that are favored by the church I believe they are true.

The Magisterium does not give definitive or infallible rulings on claimed private revelations, because the Magisterium teaches from Tradition and Scripture. So while the Magisterium can condemn, even infallibly, an idea found in a private revelation, it cannot infallibly teach that a claimed private revelation is true or is false. Remember too the "Divine Mercy" of St Faustina and St, Bernadette it takes time before they were given favor by the church they were even condemmed and later on favored,because The Magisterium can teach, but it cannot approve.

there are two types authority that the church have.

The temporal authority makes judgments of the prudential order, which are fallible and changeable.This involves decisions, not teachings, and rules, not moral law. The temporal authority of the Church gives the Bishops and the Pope the authority to rule over the Church, to make decisions and rules concerning practical matters, and to govern the people of God.

and Spiritual Authority, also called the Magisterium

The Magisterium is the ability and authority of the Church to teach the truths found in the Deposit of Faith. The Deposit of Faith consists solely of Tradition and Scripture. The Deposit of Faith is Divine
Revelation from God. Everything taught by Tradition or Scripture is entirely true and infallible.

The two swords of Peter are the spiritual and temporal authority of the Church,t hat is why ancient images of Peter were often depict him with two swords.

by Esther Thu Aug 19, 2010 11:11 am

adanedhel wrote:

Di kaya delikado yan baka magkamali tayo? I know error is not a sin but it is dangerous. For example I'm a preacher and I preached an error...and many people believed in what I preached...

True private revelations does'nt introduce new revelation and teachings everything can be found in Tradition and Scriptures. Private revelations "are not accepted as teachings"(Gordon) says. And for me they are just an additional help for us. It is up to us to accept it or not, catholic in good standing I think may not need this because what the Blessed Virgin Mary says is to live the Gospel to the letter.

a) calling us back to conversion, prayer, to penitence,mortification, to the practice of virtue...For the kingdom of God is not in words, but in virtue. (1Cor 4:20), to trust, to hope and to the exercise of an ever more perfect charity.

b) what is the purpose of the secrets? why secrets?

1. the secrets serve to confirm that certain private revelations are true. So when the secrets of Medjugorje are announced in advance, and then they occur, this will confirm Medjugorje as true apparitions from Heaven.

2. the secrets give the faithful the advantage of having advance knowledge of what God is doing, so that they can prepare:

[John]
{15:15} I will not now call you servants: for the servant knoweth not what his lord doth. But I have called you friends. because all things, whatsoever I have heard of my Father, I have made known to you.

3. the secrets will have the effect, on persons outside of the Church, of causing them to become interested in what the faithful have to say. For the faithful will understand these things, and the secular world will not understand. So the secular world will want to know, as the secrets unfold, what does this mean and what will happen next. And they will have to go to the faithful for these answers.

But you, brothers, are not in darkness, for that day to overtake you like a thief.
1 Thessalonians 5:4

by Esther Thu Aug 19, 2010 11:29 am

Yidda wrote:
The two swords of Peter are the spiritual and temporal authority of the Church,t hat is why ancient images of Peter were often depict him with two swords.

Luke
{22:38} So they said, “Lord, behold, there are two swords here.” But he said to them, “It is sufficient.”

These two swords are interperted by the Magisterium (in Unam Sanctam -Papal Bull by Pope Boniface VIII) to be the two types of authority of the Church, the spiritual teaching authority (doctrine) and the temporal authority (discipline).

by adanedhel Thu Aug 19, 2010 6:45 pm

I now get it. Its in the infallibility doctrine. It is limited only on the inability to teach wrong/false.

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