Rizal's Girlfriends

Sapagka't mahaba ang bakasyon na binigay sa akin ni Mod Neuter sa lumang BARM ay dito ko muna alagaan ang aking Rizal thread.

Ito yung thread doon sa kabila: http://www.thebereans.net/forum2/showthread.php?t=52217

Let me posts what I posted there to give you a recap...

Rizal's Girlfriends

It is Valentine's Day, so historians are giving us the usual stories of our national playboy, Jose Rizal. I love history and I read about Rizal a lot. Pero sa dami ng kanyang girlfriend, di pa rin ako kumbinsido kung totoots ba talaga ito o tsika lang (kunyari lang). Sana naging historian na lang ako, para ako ang makadiskubre kung meron bang tinagong boyfriend ang national hero.

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http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/inquire...zals-love-life

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MANILA, Philippines—Whenever conversations center on national hero Jose Rizal’s manliness, loose tongues wag about his bevy of local and international girlfriends.

Undoubtedly, Rizal was never a boor who would kiss-and-tell on his amorous affairs, now called “casual dating.” Rarely do we find these women mentioned by name in his diaries or letters, and often their identities are concealed in the first letters of their given names and surnames.

What made Rizal “tick” with these women? Was it his good looks? An endearing wit? Perhaps, it was pure animal magnetism, which we refer to as “malakas ang dating” (strong appeal)? Whatever the reason, women were so charmed by Rizal that they yearned for him.

Much of what we know about Rizal’s love affairs has come from secondary sources or worse, the rumor mill. However, some of these women did leave details of their infatuation for the hero, such as Petite Suzanne Jacoby of Brussels, who wrote: “After your departure, I did not take the chocolate. The box is still intact as on the day of your parting.”

And: “Don’t delay too long writing us because I wear out the soles of my shoes for running to the mailbox to see if there is a letter from you … I impatiently await your letter in which you will tell me all that I want to know. The whole family sends their regards with wishes that you return … There will never be any home in which you are so loved as that in Brussels, so, you little bad boy, hurry up and come back …”

A vacillating Rizal

Another young woman who kept a record of her relationship with Rizal was Consuelo Perez Ortiga, whom he met while he was a student in Madrid.

She was the daughter of Pablo Rey Ortiga, a former mayor of Manila and president of Consejo de Filipinas. Her father, intimately called “El Padre Eterno” by the Filipino expatriates, often held informal gatherings for the students in his home.

As a young man who had abruptly left his sweetheart Leonor Rivera for studies abroad, Rizal seemed to have consoled himself through a flirtatious affair with Consuelo. Her diary passages indicate that Rizal seems genuinely attracted to her, yet vacillating if he should pursue his suit.


Click here for complete article: http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/inquire...zals-love-life

Quote from: ThroughRightlyDeclare May tanong po ako, ano po ba talaga relasyon niya kay Josephine?

Magandang tanong, TRD. Kung grade-1 history book lang ang ating basahin, malaman natin na si Josephine ang kanyang pinakasalan. So, hindi bading ang ating national hero -- kasado eh. At di lang yan, Catholic pa, kasi nagpakasal sa Catholic Church.

But the truth is somewhat different. The reality -- those that don't come out in history books for the masses but only in history books for professional historian -- paints a more realistic, more human picture of the hero. Rizal is not superman. He is a complex human being with negatives. His true heroism was in rising above his complex personality and inspired nation to independence.

Scratching the surface of popular historical myths, let me offer these interesting sites.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephine_Bracken

http://www.mabuhayradio.com/drrizal-...came-a-cebuana

http://brackenjosephine.blogspot.com/

Here are what you can gather from those sites. Let me focus on the controversial because you already heard too much of the positive views.


1. Rizal and Josephine met in Hong Kong in 1891. Rizal was already 30 years old then, while Josephine was only almost 15 years old, hehehehe. Like YHWH (when He chose Mary) and some prophets, mahilig din si Rizal ng teenager.

2. Josephine was born of pure Irish parents, but was adopted by an American. She was "tisay", although famous writer Rafael Palma described her as "not a remarkable beauty". And I am sure naman you can see the actual photos in Google.

3. Sen. Raul Roco was not very generous in describing Josephine during a keynote lecture at the PEN National Conference in Cebu when he claimed that Josephine was a bar girl whose relationship with her foster father was probably far from innocent.

4. Rizal lived-in with Josephine in Dapitan and she got pregnant. Guys, guys, guys, pwede ba di naman natin masyadong ipagmalinis ang ating hero. He fornicated in a sustained, continuing, scandalous relationship.

5. The relationship was not that sweet. Rumors had it that Josephine miscarried the baby after a violent quarrel with Rizal, some even suggested that he pushed her down the stairs. (Hmmmm, Brother Willy Santiago, meron pa palang mas bayolente kaysa iyo).

6. Proof of Rizal's loss of affection to Josephine was when Rizal left Dapitan to volunteer as doctor in the Spanish Army in the war in Cuba. Hmmm, anetch ba etech, our national hero volunteered to serve the enemy (Spain) para di siya i-firing squad. Besides, what red-blooded heterosexual will leave his young wife alone while he will have to travel again? In contrast, his contemporaries (other heroes) had wives and children at this time.

7. For those of us who read those pang-masa history books, we now know that Spain initially accepted his offer to work as doctor for Spain in the Cuban war. But Spain changed its mind and brought Rizal back to Manila and to prison. Di nakalusot!

8. This is when the RCC propaganda machine worked full blast. It is at this stage that we are told that Rizal renounced his Masonry, he repented his fornication, he accepted his mother church, he married his wife, he died a good Catholic, and he went to heaven. And we all lived happily ever after.
But no marriage certificate was ever found. The back-to-church chapter was doubted by some historians.

9. When Rizal died, Josephine was not accepted by the aristocratic Rizal family. She was not allowed to live in the Rizal house. The family thought
she was a Spanish spy. hehehehehe

10. The Spanish government forced her to get out of the Philippines. The Philippine revolutionary government gave her some respect as Rizal's widow but was not very excited with her. She left the country never to return. She eventually married another Filipino, less famous this time, but it was said that she finally found marital happiness.

Nice happy ending.

The story just humanized Rizal. He was brought down to the level of normal humans instead of as a superhero.

Stay with me in this thread. I will tell you more. As some old-timers in this forum will warn you, I will end this thread with the assertion that Rizal was gay. I will even name his boyfriend. If Rizal is now the name of the main avenue in any city, his boyfriend's name is the name of a side street. Abangan.

Salamat, Rushmore, sa inyong interes sa atong mahal na bayani.

Actually, tama ka, si Ferdinand Blumentritt nga ang boyfriend ni Rizal. Kaya kung nasa Avenida ka at nakatayo ka sa corner ng Rizal Avenue at Blumentritt St ay para na ring nasa sentro ka ng isang nakatagong pag-ibig. Anyway, we are a little ahead of our story. We need to backtrack a bit and build our case.

Premise

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Friends, Bereans, countrymen, lend me your ears;

I did not come here to besmirch Rizal.
Like you, I do believe that he was the greatest of Filipinos
But his greatness did not depend on the perfection of his person
Because he was not
His greatness came from his ability to inspire a nation towards perfection
Freedom is the perfect destiny of a nation

Rizal was not a god
He was as human as the next person
With all the human anxieties, failings and insecurities
Resist the temptation to raise mortals to pedestals
Our heroes should walk beside us, not sit on the pantheon
You should appreciate him not as a shining idol
But as a human who succeeded despite the odds

This is the Rizal I knew
This is the Rizal you will see

Was Rizal Gay?

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Was he gay? The question is absurd. The concept of "gayness" is a recent concept and does not exist in Rizal's time. It is like asking the question "Was Moses a Christian" or "Was Lapu-lapu a Filipino?". Because the questions were anachronistic (timing is off), the answers are "no". So, Rizal was not "gay" in our current understanding of the term. We have to observe how persons in his time behaved and felt about relating to persons of the same sex. We don't have a picture of the hero in a gown because such a picture would never exist. But let us slowly paint a true picture of Rizal from insights about him and his writings. In effect, as what top Rizal historian Ambeth Ocampo titled his book, let us view "Rizal Without the Overcoat".

Let us start slow, shall we? Let us first check if Rizal was aware of same-sex relationships during his time. The answer is "yes". He wrote it in his book. You probably did not notice it at the time you were cramming in college, but read it carefully now. In his book El Filibusterismo, there is a chapter entitled "Manila Characters" and in it Rizal described one character...

That respectable gentleman who is so elegantly attired is not a physician but a homeopathist on his own, sui generis: he believes totally in the similia similibus, the attraction of likes. That young Cavalry captain with him is his favorite disciple.

Rizal, El Filibusterismo

Yes, Virginia, same-sex relationship existed during Rizal time and Rizal casually described it in El Fili. It appeared accepted. He even seemed amused with it because he clearly made some play with words. "Similia similibus" can refer both to the theory of homeopathy but it can also refer to homosexuality. "Sui generis", is Latin and literally means "of its own kind". He said that the doctor was of its own kind. It could mean that the doctor was exceptional, unique, sole specialist in homeopathy, or it is a playful way of saying that the doctor was "queer". Finally, I am sure you did not fail to notice that the gorgeous young officer with the rich doctor was clearly a lover.

Rizal also described the gay doctor as "elegantly" attired. He used profiling because truly one known profile of a gay person is that he/she tends to be well attired. I am not saying that all elegantly attired persons are gay. All I am saying is that we are slowly building a long list of characteristics that could paint a picture of a gay person. Elegant dressing is one of possible characteristic.

Interesting, huh? I am saying that Rizal was gay just because he wrote about gays. Jeez, we are just barely starting here. All I am saying is that visible homosexuality existed at his time and he simply noticed it. But it is interesting what your Spanish Literature teacher failed to even mention in college. Will you come with me and learn something new?

Quote from: Kapatid Puro ka na naman tsismaks brad ha!

Thanks for your interest, Kap. At one point I was worried that you will ignore this thread.

Kung tsismaks lang ito, e di i-refute mo. Watch this thread. I will bring out the big guns -- big-shot historians and writers.

Quote from: Kapatid Bakit kailangang irepyut ang tsismaks brad? Madali lang gumawa ng wento na alang wenta eh. Kahit sino pwedeng gumawa nyan.

I will be quoting from articles by such writer as Ambeth Ocampo, Director of the National Historical Commission and most popular historian in the country today. I have other sources too. But I don't rely on the authority of these historians. My posts should be readable enough that the reader should decide for himself/herself if what I will be writing makes sense.

Enjoy.

Building the Macho Image

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When you say to a friend that you think Rizal is gay, the immediate response is that it is impossible because he was a playboy, with at least NINE girlfriends.

Yeah right.

We all know that gays/silahis have girlfriends and some even married. The most well known example is the Rustom Padilla - Carmina Villaroel love affair. In fact the number of girlfriends is not proof of heterosexuality. On sexuality, more girlfriends is not necessarily better. It is the quality of the relationship that matters, not the number.

Rizal had nine named girlfriends. But all his relationships ended up in tragic separations, indecision, lack of commitment, lots of drama but no successful conclusion. You have already read about the last one -- Josephine Bracken. Other than the fact that no marriage certificate exists on this supposed marriage, Josephine never really acquired legal rights over Rizal's body and property after his death.

But let us start with the first one -- Julia. Historians write that the "playboy" Riza had his first girlfriend when he was 15 years old. Wow! One day, he saw this beautiful lass by the river. He offered her some butterflies. They talked. Her name was Julia, but he never knew the family name. "But because of lack of subsequent communication, he eventually forgot this lady."

Ganoon lang! Girlfriend na kaagad? I think there is desperation among our historians to build the macho image of our hero. May naka-tsika lang sa may ilog, girlfriend na kaagad. Kung ganoon lang pala ay di meron na rin pala akong isang daan na girlfriend.

More about the other girlfriends next post...

Three Pinay Girlfriends

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The next three relationships were dramatic and, of course, unsuccessful.

GF2 was Segunda Katigbak of Lipa. But at this time, Segunda was already engaged to Manuel Luz. So, what do historians want to tell us? That Rizal courtship was hopeless? Or that Segunda was a second-timer (engaged but playing at the side)? At any rate, count out this relationship. History recorded that our lover boy "was too timid to propose".

http://www.takdangaralin.com/history...ls-first-love/


GF3 was Leonor Valenzuela. He was a medical student at that time. She was a beautiful neighbor in Manila. They were lovers but Rizal "stopped short of proposing marriage". At that time when people marry at his age, he preferred his studies. He bade Leonor goodbye when he was leaving for Spain, never to reconnect again. Ganoon?

http://www.takdangaralin.com/history...et-name-orang/


GF4 was another Leonor, Leonor Rivera. She met Rizal when she was 13 years old and Rizal was already a 21-year old medical student! Besides, this was at the time that Rizal also had Leonor Valenzuela. Teka, Manoling, di kaya magalit ang MTCRB nito?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonor_Rivera

Leonor was the most well known of Rizal's girlfriend. She is the girlfriend we know from our elementary Rizal course. She is said to be the model of the fictional Maria Clara. (I will tell you about Maria Clara later. We still have to examine if the Noli is a gay novel.) Rizal communicated with her for eight years. But in the end, wala ring nangyari.

Ipagpalagay na lang natin na penpal lang ito, hehehehe.

Salamat, Tinubos, sa inyong interes. Lalo kung pag-ibayuhin ang aking pagsisikap na bigyan kayo ng tama pero interesanteng pagsalaysay ng buhay at pag-ibig ng ating pambansang bayani.

With Foreign GFs: Indecision

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GF5 was Consuelo Ortiga of Spain. He was sending poems (one was considered as one of his best works) but he suddenly backed out when the relationship was about to turn more serious. There was also a Filipino rival Eduardo de Lete.

GF6 was Getrude Beckett of Britain. As usual, our loverboy made the usual pa-cute -- poems, etc. etc. BUT... "he suddenly left London for Paris to avoid Gertrude, who was seriously in love with him." Abaw! takbuhin pala ang ating manok.

http://www.takdangaralin.com/history...zals-landlord/

GF7 was Nellie Boustead of France. Their relationship almost reached marriage. BUT, again, there is a BUT... "it failed because Rizal refused to be converted to the Protestant faith, as Nellie demanded." Hmmm, the irreligious Rizal -- who consorted with all sorts of heretical organization like the Masons -- could not even accept the reasonable expectations of the girl he loved. He gets credits from the RCC for appearing to be loyal. But as a lover, he gets no credits from me. I dare say that he was just making marriage so unreachable.

http://www.takdangaralin.com/history...nors-marriage/

GF8 was O Sei San of Japan. Matinik talaga. Napadaan lang sa Japan, na-excited na kaagad ang mga paparazzi, er, historians pala. Rizal had a Japanese girlfriend! Ganoon? Well, as it turned out, he did not follow through again because he felt that his destiny was to serve the country.


Teka! Stop! Nagsawa na ako sa kaka-alibi ah! Kayo ba hindi pa? Nobody denied Rizal that his destiny was to serve the country. But did he not know that marrying/loving and serving the country are not mutually exclusive? Pwedeng gawin yan sabay sabay. Queen Victoria reigned over the Golden Age of Britain while pregnant almost every time. King Mongkut was the king of Thailand during its Golden Age while siring more than 60 children. Marcos loved Imelda and the wealth of this country at the same time. Ninoy had a family while trying to bring down the dictatorship.

Lesson for Rizal: Love your country, we demanded of you. But don't use that as an excuse for not loving a woman -- or a man -- of your choice. No alibis.

Counting in the Josephine Bracken, we now have seen all of Rizal's known girlfriends. Can you see the pattern? We clearly see the indecision when faced with the prospects of lasting and committed heterosexual relationship. All relationships were fleeting and marked by drama. I am not saying that INDECISION is proof of Rizal's gayhood, but I am certainly claiming that indecision is the second characteristic in our collage. Earlier I said that ELEGANT DRESSING is associated with gayness. None of these characteristics is decisive, but I am slowly building a profile here. And there are many more characteristics coming.

Abangan.

Quote from: Diosangpastol im listening Mr. Ateo, please continue ... Ignore them

Hhahaha, Diosangpastol, thank you for your support and interest. It is for readers like you that I try to make my thread interesting and informative.

Quote from: androbernabe Nakaka-intriga ang thread na ito, honestly. Nagkataon pa naman na ang personal assessment ko sa biographical book ni Rizal by Dr. Zaide is somewhat apotheosising. He even called Rizal as "a man of truth". I will subscribe to this thread for sure. Thanks sa author.

Thanks, Andro, for your interest. You are correct in observing that our problem in study our national hero is that he was apostheosized by most historians. But Rizal became a hero not because he was a god but because he was a human. So, this thread is an effort to humanize Rizal. His sexual doubts, his insecurities, his towering ambitions, his pettiness and other human characteristics do not make him a lesser hero. Surmounting all of those made him an even inspiring hero.

Sex Life

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We have seen his romance. Most were just fleeting romances that started with a poem and ended with tearful goodbyes. In each case, he forewent possible marriage for various reasons -- studies, insufficient desire, incompatible religions, service to country. His longest romance was only with Leonor Rivera. But even this one was destined for tragic failure. Leonor was only 13 when they first met and she was only 15 when Rizal departed the Philippines. Clearly, it was only a teenage infatuation to a brilliant doctor. Worse, Leonor was Rizal's FIRST COUSIN. Leonor's parents helped Rizal with the finances, but they never consented marrying their daughter to him. Oo naman! While historians claimed that Rizal had an 8-year romance with Leonor, this was mostly penpal type of romance with a legal impediment to proceed into marriage. Rizal was marriage-proof.

Now that we have seen the romances, let us proceed to something more serious. SEX LIFE. How was Rizal's sex life? To understand this in context I will use in the analogy some BARMers who showed up in this thread -- Kapatid, Harballah and Combatron. Don't worry guys, I won't breach your privacy nor damage your reputation. I will just guess how you would behave if you were in Rizal's situation, so that we can understand how he behaved.

The Sex Life of the Ilustrados

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We now introduce a class of Filipinos called the "Ilustrados", of which Rizal belonged. "Ilustrados" literally means "the Enlightened Ones" and this refers to the group of expatriate Filipinos in Europe -- centered in Madrid and Barcelona -- who are considered learned or educated. If you think how hard and expensive to travel to Europe and live there to study, you would readily conclude that these were the young elites of Philippine society. Here is their photo:




Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilustrado


Freed from the constraints of home, these young elites made themselves busy with nationalistic politics and their studies. But they were equally busy with courtships, carousing and lots of sex with European women. This is not surprising for the young privileged people who are away from home. They were homesick too.

But we don't know all these by logic alone. There is an existing first-hand testimony of their sexed-up lifestyle written by one ilustrado named Maximo Viola -- see next post.

Mga Kalapating Mababa ang Lipad

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Maximo Viola, a very close friend of Rizal, wrote about Rizal's visit to him in Barcelona. Here is the link to the full write-up by Viola: http://joserizal.info/Biography/viola_diary.htm

Before I make my analysis of the entire document, please focus on the following paragraph. This refers to the fact that Viola was preparing for his final exams in medical school when Rizal was staying in his apartment. Try to answer my three questions as you read this passage by Viola:

a. Did you notice the "houses of low-flying doves"? It is a literal translation from the Spanish "las casas de las palomas de vuelo bajo", which is easier for us to understand in Tagalog as "mga kalapating mababa ang lipad"?

b. Did our ilustrados frequent these casas in Madrid and in Barcelona?

c. Did Rizal like going to these places?


During the day I could not accompany him in his excursions as much as I wished for the reason that I was preparing for my final examinations as I have previously stated. At night I accompanied him sometimes to the Café Pelayo – a gathering- place of the Filipino colony – and sometimes to other amusement centers, including “houses of low-flying doves” [01] whose ways, luxury or poverty, and other customs in the refinement of vice were unknown to him at Madrid. Inasmuch as he was eager to know everything, because the day when, as a writer, he would have to combat such a vice in its diverse manifestations for being unnatural and anti-physiological, according to him, he would be informed of its cause, the better to correct it. It must be noted that in these excursions, rather of a character more inquisitional than voluptuous, he always hinted to me that he had never been in favor of blindly obeying the whims of nature when their call was not duly justified by a natural and spontaneous impulse.

Analysis

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House of the low-flying doves! It sounds so funny in literal English translation.

But here we have a first-hand testimony from one of the ilustrados. These ilustrados frequent these nightclubs both in Madrid and in Barcelona. They were having a fucking good time. Not very edifying, but very understandable because they were young, rich, and far from home.

I am sorry for mentioning low-flying doves in this religious site. I'm sure such conservative models here such as Kapatid would not have recognized one, much less been near one. Harballah is lucky because there should be no low-flying doves in Saudi. And for my friend, Combatron, this is out of the question, chastity being his motto.

But the ilustrados were a randy (mae-el) group EXCEPT FOR ONE! Rizal was so different because doves and "other customs in the refinement of vice were unknown to him at Madrid." He was a virgin, more or less!

Dragged to the red-light district by his friend, Rizal acted as if he was on research. "It must be noted that in these excursions, rather of a character more inquisitional than voluptuous." Picture those Pinoys having lap dances there while Rizal was doing his investigative interviews.

Not tasting those voluptuous girls does not make one gay. He could be a straight saint. But by not doing it, he strengthened my case. Had his reputation been a playboy and a knight of the red light district, then I would probably have to end my case. As it turned out, tuloy pa rin ang ating imbestigasyon.

The third piece in our collage of gay characteristics is the refusal of the opportunity for heterosexual sex even if it is readily available and practiced by peers. Remember, not one of these characteristics on its own decisively makes one gay, but we are building a preponderance of circumstantial evidences.

Now, I am done with the girls, let me focus on the guys of Rizal's life ...

Quote from: rushmore Good day sir ateo.. mukhang matapang naman sir rizal kasi hinamon nya ng duelo si luna dahil kay Nellie Boustead hehe..

Ah Rushmore, I totally agree with you. Our hero was brave, very brave. That is not an issue here.

Bravery is a characteristic that is present among the straights and gays alike. In fact, the bravest generals and the best political leaders in history had homosexual relationships. Among them are the following:

a. Alexander the Great
b. Julius Caesar, the founder of the Roman Empire
c. Suleiman the Magnificent, the greatest Muslim Ottoman emperor
d. Saladin, the charitable Liberator of Jerusalem from the Christian Crusaders
e. James the First, of the King James Version
f. Eleanor Roosevelt, greatest First Lady of the US
g. Montezuma II, Aztec emperor
h. Dag Hammerskjold, UN Secretary General
i. Abraham Lincoln, the greatest US president

Even gods and mythological figures could be gay too, the most famous being the mighty Hercules and the supreme deity, Jupiter.

So, Rizal can be brave and gay, like the above brave and famous leaders.

Kuriputitis

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Before we leave the girls entirely, let us examine a couple of observations that Viola wrote about Rizal's girlfriends. These are precious observations because Viola was such a closed-in observer. He wrote about the way Rizal treated Leonor Rivera, the supposedly greatest love, in the following manner:


With regard to his platonic love for his former fiancée, Leonor Rivera, there is the circumstance, proving the control of his clear and strong mind over his heart, that despite his very great love for her, moderation impelled him to send her from Berlin for the Christmas of 1886, nothing more than a modest little box of stationery, although there were in the shop special kinds suitable for sweethearts and at bargain prices.

Maximo Viola, http://joserizal.info/Biography/viola_diary.htm


Two things you should observe. First, Viola characterized the Leonor-Rizal relationship as "platonic". It was not physical, not passionate -- but dry, intellectual (Plato = intellectual) and perhaps sustained only by letter-writing.

The second observation is more shocking. Viola appeared surprised by our hero's kuripotitis. He bought as Christmas gift to his supposedly greatest love (Leonor) cheap stationery, instead of "special kinds suitable for sweethearts", such as chocolates, perhaps; dolls, hats, bags, jewelry, etc. You can read Viola's surprise because the special gifts would not have been expensive at all.

This brings us to the fourth characteristic in our collage of gay characteristics -- kuripotitis in dealing with girlfriends. Again, let me emphasize that being kuripot in treating girls in itself is not a decisive proof of being gay but more passionate lovers are definitely more generous. (The girls in BARM should know.) Kuripotitis is just one small element in our emerging tagpi-tagpi picture of Rizal, particularly because I will tell you later a situation in which Rizal splurged and luxuriated with somebody else.

Quote from: paweng Magandang topic ito, first time ko kasi makarinig na may pagka bading si Rizal, kasi sa school pagiging play boy ang tinuturo tungkol sa kanya.

Sadly, we prefer to create myths to fit our concept of a hero instead of celebrating the person who really was.

Quote from: Diosangpastol leaving the girls, sure to start with Noli ... im quite guessing Elias will be a good example proving this claim

Your insticts are right, Diosangpastol. We shall end this thread with the novels -- Noli and Fili. The novels are windows to Rizal's soul and mind. They were said to be an autobiography, but which character was Rizal then? As a fiction, the author was given some leeway to create his concept of himself.

We have all read the Noli and Fili. They are clearly nationalistic social exposes. But a gay theme, we have NOT noticed, have we? We only noticed what we were taught to notice.

Kapatid has already decided this is just tsismaks. But I bet he is following this thread too. Hi, Kap; been too quiet?