read! In the Name of your Lord Who has created (all that exists).

RavlaM wrote:

Kayo po ang naglatag niyan..kumbinsihin mo ako.

Kaya nga alam mo ba ang arabic niyan na qarata, nakita mo iyong isinalin na recite.......ang sabi kung binibigkas (recite) ang Quran..............malinaw diba kung binibigkas daw ang Quran sa arabic ay "waitha qarata alquran"...

Ayan malinaw masyado sapagkat binanggit ang Quran, hindi katulad iyong gusto mong ibaling paksa na hula-hula ka lang.

harballah wrote:

Kaya nga alam mo ba ang arabic niyan na qarata, nakita mo iyong isinalin na recite.......ang sabi kung binibigkas (recite) ang Quran..............malinaw diba kung binibigkas daw ang Quran sa arabic ay "waitha qarata alquran"...

Ayan malinaw masyado sapagkat binanggit ang Quran, hindi katulad iyong gusto mong ibaling paksa na hula-hula ka lang.

Saan po ba kayo kumuha ng translation na yan?

Ito pong translation ay galing sa Grand Quran .com

Wala pong hula-hula yan tulad ng sinasabi ninyo.



وَإِذَا قَرَأْتَ الْقُرآنَ جَعَلْنَا بَيْنَكَ وَبَيْنَ الَّذِينَ لاَ يُؤْمِنُونَ بِالآخِرَةِ حِجَابًا مَّسْتُورًا
45. And when you read the Qur'an, We make between you and those who have not faith in the later (life) a screening veil.

http://grandquran.com/017_Al-Israa/3.htm

Wow sino ang nagsalin ng grandquran na iyan, ito po kilalang tagasalin ng Quran.

017.045
YUSUFALI: When thou dost recite the Qur'an, We put, between thee and those who believe not in the Hereafter, a veil invisible:
PICKTHAL: And when thou recitest the Qur'an we place between thee and those who believe not in the Hereafter a hidden barrier;
SHAKIR: And when you recite the Quran, We place between you and those who do not believe in the hereafter a hidden barrier;


http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/resources/texts/muslim/quran/017.qmt.html

Nakita mo ang mga nagsasalin ay ibinabasi nila doon sa konteksto ng talata kung saan iyong Iqra ay puwedeng read at recites.....kaya nga huwag kang magmamagaling kasi kung wala kang alam sa Islam at nanghuhula ka lang ay hindi mo lubos malaman kung ano ang tama.

Paano ngayon yan, ang napatunayan natin ngayon ay ang malimaling interpretation ng quran.

Kung iisipin ang sinabi mong recite=qarata ay malayo sa read=iqra.

Malabo pa sa sarsa ng lechon.

RavlaM wrote:Paano ngayon yan, ang napatunayan natin ngayon ay ang malimaling interpretation ng quran.

Kung iisipin ang sinabi mong recite=qarata ay malayo sa read=iqra.

Malabo pa sa sarsa ng lechon.

Kami alam namin kung ano ang nagbabasa at nagbibigkas, alam din namin kung bakit ang word na IQRA ay puwedeng isalin sa READ o RECITE basi sa konteksto ng talata.

Kaya nga tinatanong kita kung noong tanggapin ba ng propheta ang kapahayagan sa Allah sa pamamagitan ni Anghel Gabriel ay mayroon aklat na binabasa siya, kasi kung wala po ay RECITE/BIGKAS po ang tamang salin diyan.

Kitam hindi mo pala alam kung bakit ang word na ginagamit ay QARATA.....gusto sana kitang turuan ng arabic lesson kaya lang baka masayang lang ang oras ko sa inyo.

harballah wrote:

Kami alam namin kung ano ang nagbabasa at nagbibigkas, alam din namin kung bakit ang word na IQRA ay puwedeng isalin sa READ o RECITE basi sa konteksto ng talata.

Kaya nga tinatanong kita kung noong tanggapin ba ng propheta ang kapahayagan sa Allah sa pamamagitan ni Anghel Gabriel ay mayroon aklat na binabasa siya, kasi kung wala po ay RECITE/BIGKAS po ang tamang salin diyan.

Kitam hindi mo pala alam kung bakit ang word na ginagamit ay QARATA.....gusto sana kitang turuan ng arabic lesson kaya lang baka masayang lang ang oras ko sa inyo.

Hahaha kung alam ninyo eh bakit malinaw na mayroong mga english translation na ang translation nila ay read at hindi recite.
nakakapagtaka talaga ang discripancies, even in islamic dictionaries eh magkakaiba.

Kung malinaw na recite nga yan eh bakit may mga translation na read.

This is a dangerous revelation, may mga discrepancies sa translation...kunfg iisipin kasi kung read nga yan eh malaking kahihiyan sa quran.

Ito po ang evidence:

Khalifa

When you read the Quran, we place between you and those who do not believe in the Hereafter an invisible barrier.

Yusuf Ali

When thou dost recite the Qur'an, We put, between thee and those who believe not in the Hereafter, a veil invisible:

Pickthal

And when thou recitest the Qur'an we place between thee and those who believe not in the Hereafter a hidden barrier;

Shakir

And when you recite the Quran, We place between you and those who do not believe in the hereafter a hidden barrier;

Sher Ali

And when thou recitest the Qur'an, WE put between thee and those who believe not in the Hereafter an invisible veil;

"Progressive Muslims"

And when you read the Quran, We place between you and those who do not believe in the Hereafter an invisible barrier.

O alin diyan ang mas nakakausad iyong read ba o iyong recite....

Sino pala iyang progressive muslims

Sabi ko na kasi huwag kang magmamagaling kasi hindi ka nag-aaral ng arabic language hanggang hula-hula ka lang

harballah wrote:O alin diyan ang mas nakakausad iyong read ba o iyong recite....

Sino pala iyang progressive muslims

Sabi ko na kasi huwag kang magmamagaling kasi hindi ka nag-aaral ng arabic language hanggang hula-hula ka lang

]
Kung nanghuhula ako eh bakit may ebidensya ako.

So magulo pa sa kulot na buhok ng tikruni ang situwasyon ngayon.

Progressive muslims? Is it dangerous?

naku po... lumang usapin parin ba ang andito? o lumang tuliro?

RavlaM wrote:
]
Kung nanghuhula ako eh bakit may ebidensya ako.

So magulo pa sa kulot na buhok ng tikruni ang situwasyon ngayon.

Progressive muslims? Is it dangerous?

Alin ang ebidensiya mo iyong hulaan mo iyong nasa arabic sa transliteration, gusto mo subukan kita kung may alam ka sa arabic, gusto mo?

spuxtm wrote:

naku po... lumang usapin parin ba ang andito? o lumang tuliro?

O tama ka bro, iyan din ang sabi ko sa promotor ng thread na ito na doon narin pag-usapan tutal sila-sila rin naman ang kausap natin sa kabilang forum, nagkakalat lang kasi sila dito sa NEW BARM.

harballah wrote:

Alin ang ebidensiya mo iyong hulaan mo iyong nasa arabic sa transliteration, gusto mo subukan kita kung may alam ka sa arabic, gusto mo?



O tama ka bro, iyan din ang sabi ko sa promotor ng thread na ito na doon narin pag-usapan tutal sila-sila rin naman ang kausap natin sa kabilang forum, nagkakalat lang kasi sila dito sa NEW BARM.

Di po ba nakapagpost ako ng Islamic dictionary nanagpapatunay na ang iqra ay read?
dipo ba nasuportahan ko na ang yatloo ang ginagamit na term para sa recite.

At ang pinagmamalaki mo diyan ngayon ay di hindi ang salitang "iqra" na issue ng thread na ito.

Ikaw po harballah anghanggang ngayon ay wala pa rin ebidensya.

Nasisigurado ko sa iyo mas marunong akong mg arabic kesa sa iyo.

Hay! naku kung ang kausap mo ay isang tulad ni ravlam wala talagang pupuntahan ang diskusisyon.

Aral ka muna ng arabic words at huwag ka masyadong bumabasi lang sa dictionary kuno ng arabic.

aba lufet naman pala ni kaibigan Ravlam kasi marunong daw siyang mag-arabic...

hindi dahil marunong kang mag-arabic eh tama na ang grammar mo sa arabic... tama ba na gawin mong meaning ng Iqra is read kung sa application is mas tumpak na recite ang gagamitin? asaan ang basic grammar mo kung yan ang ipagpipilitan mo?

check mo reference ko na galing mismo sa Hans-Wehr dictionary...

http://www.thebereans.net/forum2/showthread.php?t=47257&page=7

Salam bro, mas maganda ilatag natin iyong post mo sa kabila tutal umabot narin dito at ayaw nilang puntahan iyong existing thread doon.

Iyan kasing kausap natin ay hindi gumagamit ng kokote kaya mahihirapan kang magpaliwanag, kaya para sa lahat ng mambabasa ay ipakita natin ang sagot mo diyan sa link mo.

ito po ang post ni kapatid na spuxtm.

spuxtm wrote:binasa ko yung ibang post at ang pinagtalunan niyo lang is yung sinabi ng Anghel Gabriel na "READ" at natuto ba siyang magbasa... sigurado ka ba na READ ang ibig sabihin ni Anghel Gabriel sa talata na ito?[size="3"]

ٱقۡرَأۡ بِٱسۡمِ رَبِّكَ ٱلَّذِى خَلَقَ (١) خَلَقَ ٱلۡإِنسَـٰنَ مِنۡ عَلَقٍ (٢) ٱقۡرَأۡ وَرَبُّكَ ٱلۡأَكۡرَمُ (٣
[/size]
ang rootword ng "iqra" ٱقۡرَأۡis "qara'a" قۡرَأۡwhich means to declaim or recite... another meaning ng "qara'a" is "to read, to peruse, to study"
kapag sinabing "iqra" meaning is "to read or recite", ano bang ginawa ng Propeta Muhammad saws??? nagrecite ba o nagread? kapag sinabing IQRA dahil sa hindi marunong magbasa, nagrecite siya, kapag nagrecite ka namemorize mo. tama ba?

reference, Hans-Wehr A Dictionary of Modern Written Arabic p.753
bumili ka niyan para hindi kayo nalilito okay... pero bago mo maintindihan yan dapat mag-aral ka muna ng arabic alphabet...

Iyan din iyong ipinakita ko kay ravlam na word qara'ta which recital.

harballah wrote:
Ikaw ang tinatanong ko kung papaano ka nakakasiguro na iyong yatloo ay recite, huwag mo akong tanungin kasi pinag-aaralan namin ang arabic sa madrasah (arabic school) pero ikaw ba alam mo ang arabic o nanghuhula ka lang doon sa transliteration.

Pakisagot lang po kasi parang mas marunong pa kayo sa amin, in fact ni hindi mo na ginalaw ang post kung ito.

Nagsasayang ba ako ng oras sa inyo.

Natatakot ka bang masupalpal nitong english with arabic translation.

17:45
When thou dost recite the Qur'an, We put, between thee and those who believe not in the Hereafter, a veil invisible:


a) When thou dost [b]recite the Qur'an

b) وَإِذَا قَرَأْتَ الْقُرْآنَ

c) Waitha qarata al'qurana

Sana isaksak iyan sa kokote ni ravlam.

Nakapagtataka po na ang salitang "iqra ay read at recite, wala pong ibangdialect na may isang salita na pareho ang meaning ng read at recite....

Masasabi ko kay sputum eh lagyan niya ngasim ang sinasabi niya....haka-haka lang yan!

Ang masasabi ko sa problema mo sa "yatloo" di po ba naglatag ako ng verse na gamit ang "atloo" at sa translation ay recite".

May asim yon kaya mg backread po kayo.

Kaya nga huwag mong ipangalandakan na nauunawaan mo ang arabic kasi iyong nag-aaral lang ng arabic course ang siyang tunay na nakakaalam at hindi po isang namumulot lang sa websites

baka ikaw ang haka-haka bro...
meron ka bang Google translate?
subukan mong i-type ang "to recite" anong lalabas?
subukan mong i-type ang "to read" anong lalabas?
wag kang magsisinungaling, ayaw ni Lord mo ng sinungaling diba?
i-paste mo dito kung anong arabic equivalent ang ilalabas ng Google translator.
o kaya naman i-type mo sa Google translator ang "to recite and read"... anong lalabas???
baka sabihin mo mali ang Google translator, eh di sabihan mo ang Google na mali sila...

wala ka pang basic Arabic nakikipagtalo ka na, bakit kung "Read" ang meaning meron bang mababago sa Islam? hellowwww...

hirap kasi sayo, hindi mo magets...
ang Qur'an is suited at any generations, noong time na nireveal suited ito sa kanya, noong siya nagpreach suited ito sa mga tao... ngayon at nagbabasa ka, suited din ito sayo... nagets mo? yan ang isa sa mga miracle ng lengwaheng ginamit mismo ng Allah swt para sa lahat ng sa ganun kahit anong klaseng tao o pilosopong tulad mo o kaya'y hindi makagets eh kayang ipagtanggol ng Qur'an ang sarili niya...

clear na po ba? kung gusto mong matuto ng arabic na maayos, siyempre mag-aral ka ng maayos...
bakit kapag sinabing "matulin at mabilis" parehas ba ito o magkaiba?
depende yan sa sentence at pagkakagamit diba?
ganun din sa arabic, kung ang lengwahe mo is pwede mong laruin, ganun ang mga arabo... nagets mo ba?

kung hindi mo nagets... was na ako ma sey ;-)

spuxtm wrote:baka ikaw ang haka-haka bro...
meron ka bang Google translate?
subukan mong i-type ang "to recite" anong lalabas?
subukan mong i-type ang "to read" anong lalabas?
wag kang magsisinungaling, ayaw ni Lord mo ng sinungaling diba?
i-paste mo dito kung anong arabic equivalent ang ilalabas ng Google translator.
o kaya naman i-type mo sa Google translator ang "to recite and read"... anong lalabas???
baka sabihin mo mali ang Google translator, eh di sabihan mo ang Google na mali sila...

wala ka pang basic Arabic nakikipagtalo ka na, bakit kung "Read" ang meaning meron bang mababago sa Islam? hellowwww...

hirap kasi sayo, hindi mo magets...
ang Qur'an is suited at any generations, noong time na nireveal suited ito sa kanya, noong siya nagpreach suited ito sa mga tao... ngayon at nagbabasa ka, suited din ito sayo... nagets mo? yan ang isa sa mga miracle ng lengwaheng ginamit mismo ng Allah swt para sa lahat ng sa ganun kahit anong klaseng tao o pilosopong tulad mo o kaya'y hindi makagets eh kayang ipagtanggol ng Qur'an ang sarili niya...

clear na po ba? kung gusto mong matuto ng arabic na maayos, siyempre mag-aral ka ng maayos...
bakit kapag sinabing "matulin at mabilis" parehas ba ito o magkaiba?
depende yan sa sentence at pagkakagamit diba?
ganun din sa arabic, kung ang lengwahe mo is pwede mong laruin, ganun ang mga arabo... nagets mo ba?

kung hindi mo nagets... was na ako ma sey ;-)

Bakit di po ninyo tingnan ang "iqra" sa Islamic dictionary.

basahin mong maigi itong short article na ito at sana makapulot ka ng kaunting katotohanan...

Why Does the Qur'an Open With Iqra' (Recite, Read)?

Written by muslimway.org

Thursday, 13 September 2001

The Divine command to proclaim Islam opens with the sublime imperative: iqra'. Usually translated as "recite," it also means to "rehearse aloud" or to "read." It is addressed to humanity, as the Prophet represents humanity in its relationship to God. Iqra' is thus a universal injunction, an opening for each individual to move away from imperfection and toward virtue and happiness both in this world and the next. Iqra' is a command to read the signs the Creator placed in creation so that we can understand something of His Mercy, Wisdom, and Power. It is a command to learn, through experience and understanding, the meaning of His creation. Moreover, it is an infallible assurance that the creation can be read, that it is intelligible. The better we learn to read it, the better we grasp that the created world is a single universe whose beauty and harmony reflect the Guarded Tablet (85:21) upon which, by the Divine decree, all things are inscribed. Every created thing resembles a pen that records its actions. But only humanity can read what is written. That is why the Qur'an tells us to "read" instead of to "behold" We are to know the creation, not just to experience it, as is the case with all other creations. Science is the study of nature, of how the universe functions, and of the harmony and principles governing all interactions. It accumulates knowledge via observation and classification, explanation and experiment. The balanced order, delicate interrelatedness, and prolific dynamism thereof cannot be attributed to chance. Logic dictates that a Single, Supreme Being created and sustains all of this. Every order or system is conceived and designed before it is established. Think of the Guarded Tablet as a detailed design, and the Qur'an as its verbal exposition. Given this, the universe may be considered a reflection in our world of that final design. We hardly can think of creation as a single universe, let alone conceive of a design and then produce one. Our duty is to read it and seek the full meaning of everything. We do this through trial and error, for that is the only way we can learn. What sort of knowledge are we trying to acquire? There are many types of knowledge and understanding: that based on beholding or actively seeing something, inner (comprehensive knowledge) or outer (description and measurement), implementation of the lesser understanding (technology) or of the spiritual understanding (contemplation and worship, which yield wisdom), learning and teaching, self-based or other-based, the learner's or teacher's belief in independence of action or being, and of the believer's surrender and trust to the Creator. Such diversity happens side by side and continually, for the universe contains certain laws and categories that condition all being and action within it. These laws and categories are placed therein by the Creator, Who administers and sustains their harmonious operation. Among them are the following: • A movement from one to many, from simplicity to complexity • A process of becoming, the coming into existence (within the many) of similar, diverse, or opposed elements • A dynamic, enduring balance among the many • Succession or alternation, the transfer of property, vigor, power, or knowledge from one to another • Acquisition, loss, and reacquisition, or learning, forgetting, and relearning • Striving and persevering, or energy and commitment • Breaking down and recomposition, or analysis and synthesis • Inspiration that uncovers and reveals, or intuition that pierces and makes clear. Since humanity is subject to these and other conditions, people are very diverse in all aspects. However, as these natural differences and contrasts are in a dynamic, prolific balance, people have different (and changing) conceptions of and approaches to such matters as science and faith. As a result of such diversity, some teachings—even those of the Prophet—may be lost sight of for a time. But one day they will be recollected and taught again. After such a large increase in the number and variety of people, the loss of traditions and histories, as well as fragmentation, is natural. All of these will be repaired, though, for this process has happened many times in the past and will happen again in the future. Divinely inspired Scriptures, Prophets, and laws were sent successively, in part as an assurance of this process. The Prophet was blessed with a character that harmonized something of the distinguishing excellence of all previous Prophets. In him were blended the most profound spiritual knowledge and wisdom, the will to move and decisively order collective affairs, to inspire human hearts and direct their spiritual craving, to heal differences between people, and to achieve lasting reconciliation. He demonstrated the ideal balance, in individual as well as in collective affairs, between the claims of justice and compassion. His life is full of suffering, forbearance, steadfastness in defeat, and of relief, success, and victory. His style of expression was always brief, to the point, memorable, and perfect. Alongside the Qur'an, he was the fountainhead of a spiritual awakening and of a great and enduring civilization. That is why responding to iqra' means wider responsibilities and a greater degree of inner and outer trial and striving for Muslims than for members of other religions. This greater trial is a means of grace and honor, for it enables a richer harmony of more diverse virtues in each Muslim and in the community. Recent scientific discoveries have clarified certain Qur'anic verses. Such advances in knowledge occur successively, as the universe proceeds upon its decreed course and in the measure of understanding appointed for us. We must acknowledge and praise the efforts and achievements of researchers and scientists, but they should not lead us to ingratitude and insolence (the roots of unbelief). Rather, we should reaffirm our dependence upon the Creator for guidance both in our quest for and application of knowledge. We must not idolize ourselves, lest we be forsaken and left with the human will to power as the only judge in our affairs. Should that happen, scientific research and achievement will remain with those who seek to use them for their own temporary advantage. Science will become a weapon against religion, a helpless servant of selfish and generally atheistic and materialistic ideologies. The end result might be an irretrievable degradation in the quality of individual and community life. We can see all around us that applying new technologies is making more and more people increasingly impatient, arrogant, irresponsible, and hard-hearted. Some even claim that they are answerable only to themselves, as if they were self-created! And yet their lives remain full of unhappiness, stress, anxiety, unsatisfied needs, and the delusion that they are free. The sheer pace of the current scientific advance has turned human societies and individuals into laboratory experiments with no sure knowledge of the consequences or final outcome. To counteract this, we must see that the Divine command of iqra' is reunited with contemplation, that we relearn how to "read" consciously so that we can acquire true understanding and wisdom. If we can do this, we will begin to deliver science from the futility and dry formalism in which it is bound, and help to clarify its philosophical foundations and social and moral relevance. We also will be able to indicate the true range of human perception, intellect, and intuition, and make people aware of their proper balance and use. Then, those who consciously study creation will read its signs with a religious seriousness and humility, and will acquire knowledge that is civilizing and beneficial for humanity. That we are meant to read in this way and for this purpose is beyond doubt. The first thing created was the Pen, and the first word of the Revelation was iqra'. But to read in such a way requires that our inner and outer faculties be alert and harmoniously directed to the phenomena. Any defect in our inner faculties impacts the proper functioning of the others. When referring to a malaise of the spirit, the Qur'an speaks of blindness, deafness, and dumbness. The Creator's signs are first "read" with the eyes. The first sounds of Revelation are "heard" with the ears, which then channels them to the understanding. All that is seen and heard is expounded, interpreted, and communicated by the tongue, so that understanding can be deepened. If people have a poor inner life, they will be able to see, hear, or give voice to only that which affects their immediate survival or pleasure. Reading the signs will be impossible, for they will see only mechanically related bodies and surfaces, and their minds will focus on the rules and laws that will place them under control. As their inner life atrophies, contemplation and compassion will be replaced by ugliness, triviality, and barbarism. Left to themselves, such people will master neither their immediate needs and pleasures, nor their constant insecurity, anxiety, and dissatisfaction. In truth, they are blind, deaf, and dumb, and the universe is no more than a narrow prison for them.

Last Updated ( Wednesday, 14 June 2006 )

Hahaha funny in the first paragraph they sa that "iqra" means recite , read and whatever.

But if you read the rest of his post it stated that "iqra" meant read. It basically talked about the verse I posted, the first word of angel jibreel (daw) to mohammad ..and that is "iqra".

RavlaM wrote:Hahaha funny in the first paragraph they sa that "iqra" means recite , read and whatever.

But if you read the rest of his post it stated that "iqra" meant read. It basically talked about the verse I posted, the first word of angel jibreel (daw) to mohammad ..and that is "iqra".

O kitam supalpal kana gumagawa ka pa ng dahilan, basahin mo iyon kasi nakapag-aral iyon ng arabic at hindi tulad mo na nanghuhula lang sa transliteration

harballah wrote:

O kitam supalpal kana gumagawa ka pa ng dahilan, basahin mo iyon kasi nakapag-aral iyon ng arabic at hindi tulad mo na nanghuhula lang sa transliteration

O sige po, ung first paragraph po ng inilatag ni sputum eh halatang ipinagpilit ang meaning ng "iqra"

In fact the rest of his post talked exactly on the verse i posted from the "islamic dictionary"

Hanap po kayo sa second paragraph ng sentence na nagsasabi na ang "iqra" ay recite..

Paturo ka muna o aral ka muna ng arabic lesson, may libre dito sa saudi arabia mag-aral ka muna saka kana makipagtalo sa amin, kung gusto mo naman ay kontakin mo lang ako at sasamahan kita.

harballah wrote:Paturo ka muna o aral ka muna ng arabic lesson, may libre dito sa saudi arabia mag-aral ka muna saka kana makipagtalo sa amin, kung gusto mo naman ay kontakin mo lang ako at sasamahan kita.

Hahahaha kitams Harballah, wala po kayong makitang derektang nagsasabi na recite sa ipinoste ni sputum na ang unang katagang binaggit ni angel jibreel (kuno) na "iqra" .

Sadik, munkin ana akhsan kalem arabi min enta. Auz kalem arabi mini, ana warik!

Wow sigurado ka bang ang arabik mo na iyan ay grammatically o barok-barok


Akala mo ba iyong salita dito sa saudi arabia ay iyon din ang salita sa Quran, o papaano pasasama ka na sa akin na mag-aral ka ng arabic lesson....