Did God create evil/devil?

fredms3 wrote:

Robotic humans. All are scripted. What we'll say is just: Yes Lord...Is that what you want Vril?

vril wrote:

Robotic humans? Is there such a thing?

OneJack wrote:

Sa thread na lang tayo, magkatunog kasi ang thread at saka ang fred, ayan tuloy, parang magulo ang dating. Lahat ng bagay (walang matatangi ke evil pa iyan o hindi, ke badaf pa iyan o lesbian, o kahit ano pa na maiisip mo) na ating nakikita at di nakikita ay mula sa Dios na may lalang ng mga ito.

fredms3 wrote:

You are actually agreeing with me jewel --- that satan is to be blamed because of misuse of his freewill.

Lucifer chose to disobey God. The rapist chose it also. Lucifer was created with the zeal of perfection. That man (rapist) was cleansed through baptism making him an adopted son of God.

That's the picture of it my friend. If you blame God what had happened to satan then blame God also for what had happened to the rapist, both are created by God.

Jewel wrote:

I think we need to have reading comprehension here fred because it seems that there is a big misunderstanding of our points here.

You see, all atheists here agreed with me that the author of it all is God because God created everything, and that answers your Question in this thread "WHO CREATED EVIL/DEVIL" - our answer is clearly God.

That answer maintains strict monotheism (God is the sole creator/lord of everything). While your position is the most problematic one because you are attributing "creatorship"/lordship to satan because you said that it was not God who created evil but satan - so you end up polytheism because you have 2 creators.

Your dilemma is that you cant agree that God created evil otherwise he is to be blamed - But no, tho God created evil to have man at least two options to choose to exercise free will, God cant be blamed if man chooses to do evil because God did not coerce him to do so, and you agreed to me on this point.

Therefore, atheists agree with me that the author of it all is God because he is the one who created satan, and that maintains monotheism, and you agreed with me to that God cant be blamed if man chooses to do evil because God gave him free will.

So my position is clearly settled.


Your problem is still a problem - you have two creators, God and Satan - that's not monotheism anymore my dear hehehe

MarcCatholic wrote:Kuya Jewel, have you seen my post?

fredms3 wrote:
You can always have atheists on your side on this issue, no problem with me but that's not make your position correct.

It's the freewill that decided the fate of lucifer and not God.

Again, if you blamed the rapist for what he had done -- disobeying the law of God ---, then the same should be applied to how lucifer had done -- disobeying God's command.

Deviating from that reason renders it a double-standard .

Polytheism? That's a strawman jewel.

MarcCatholic wrote:Kuya Jewel, have you seen my post?

Ateo wrote:Marami palang programs and activities ang Ramadan? Akala ko reflection and prayers lang yan.

fredms3 wrote:

Ibinulong ba ng Diyos mismo sa'yo yan OJ?

Ateo wrote:Pero hindi lahat tulad mo OJ na may pamangking nagsasalita na galing sa Diyos. So papaano na lang kaming walang direct hotline?

Ateo wrote:God did not create evil. God is the Devil himself.

Jewel wrote:

Sori marc,

harby is right, we're busy here with our programs for ramadan.

Please post your question and make it summarized and direct to the point.

Thanks

MarcCatholic wrote:Kuya Jewel, naiintindihan ko po na busy pala kayo ngayon dahil sa RAMADAN. Yong post ko hindi po siya tanong. Short rebuttal lang po siya tungkol sa sinabi mo. Ahehehe. ;D

Kowya Jewel, gusto ko lang po sana puntuhan mo to.


"Okay sorry naman kowya at na-excite ako mag-reply. Ahehehe.


Anyway,
about your exam analogy. It's not fair because the intensity of evil is
not just about those wrong answers. And, it doesn't define the whole
situation of evil when compared as a wrong answer in an exam. Bias as it
is since evil is wrongfully put in the place of a mistake and if I get
your premise that would seem to appear that I agree to your explanation
and I ended up being trapped with your logic. You see, evil is a
different stuff for if really God "created" this, He seems to be a Mafia
who's toying at people wherein if a person does good, it's for him, and
if it's evil, it's still for Him...because He just created it in the
first place. Either way he benefits if I get your point. Of course, give
credit to the "creator". LOL. Ok here's the point. We may refer evil as
the thing, wherein it is "not". Just like darkness, it's not really
there but you see it. It's the absence of light. So that goes the same
thing to evil. It's the absence of goodness, the absence of God yet God
allowed it, not created it. If not, then we are all robots who do not
serve God by choice but by obligation.


I agree with James White with that statement. It's applicable for everybody. For you. "



And
yes, I believe I answered the question already. God did not create evil
but He allowed it. Evil is a creation of God's creature. I don't know
the pronouncement of the church about this but I believe I can
illustrate it in this way.

Ang computer ay ginawa ng tao.
Masasabi mo bang ginawa talaga ito, directly ni God? Hindi diba? Ito'y
bunga o gawa ng mga naiisip ng tao. ("Pero, gumamit tayo ng mga bagay
para malikha ito from God's creations.) Ngayon, dahil nandito ang evil,
ibig sabihin ba si God na talaga ang may pananagutan nito at higit sa
lahat may likha nito? Hindi kundi ang mga nilikha Niya. Of course, aware
siya darating ang evil as the "effect" pero ano naman sa kanya ngayon?


About your exam analogy. Let me add this realization of mine
just a while ago. You see, a student doesn't want to commit wrong
answers so basically there's no free will there to choose the other
items unless he wills to fail the exam. All students are trying their
best to get the right answers and get high scores. Now what about evil?
Those people who commit evil willed it. They chose it. Thanks and Peace.

MarcCatholic wrote: It seems to sound the same but if God purposely created evil, not as an effect of his creation, then He should be evil also and there are two natures for God, He's evil and He's good.

MarcCatholic wrote:Either way if a person does good or evil, he should recognize God, recognize the creator of it per se and say "The hell god, with the evil you've done you successfully ruined my life even if I tried my best to be faithful to you." Illogical right? You know evil is the enemy of God and why would He create that only to "test" people while it's against His nature?

MarcCatholic wrote:Yes we are also tested through evil circumstances but that's the effect already, not God purposely created evil but only allowing it. He wills all to be saved right but also allowed people to do what they will and it's His responsibility also when people are damned because they were not able to pass the test because of his in demand evil being created. Maliban kung hindi siya ang creator, ang pagkapahamak ng mga tao ay kasalanan na nila at hindi na responsibilidad ni God.

MarcCatholic wrote:I get that Kuya Jewel but what I am pointing at also is the effect of the analogy. It seems to sound the same but if God purposely created evil, not as an effect of his creation, then He should be evil also and there are two natures for God, He's evil and He's good.

Either way if a person does good or evil, he should recognize God, recognize the creator of it per se and say "The hell god, with the evil you've done you successfully ruined my life even if I tried my best to be faithful to you." Illogical right? You know evil is the enemy of God and why would He create that only to "test" people while it's against His nature?

Yes we are also tested through evil circumstances but that's the effect already, not God purposely created evil but only allowing it. He wills all to be saved right but also allowed people to do what they will and it's His responsibility also when people are damned because they were not able to pass the test because of his in demand evil being created. Maliban kung hindi siya ang creator, ang pagkapahamak ng mga tao ay kasalanan na nila at hindi na responsibilidad ni God.

OneJack wrote:
Hindi bulong, maliwanag ang pagkakasabi at pagkakaturo, fred. At kahit biblia ay umaayon sa sinabi ng Panginoon.

Jewel wrote:

As I said, reading properly our post is very necessary in order to avoid stawman. I never said that God is to be blamed for lucifer's evil doing. The case of lucifer and any evil doer for that matter is the same; everyone is responsible for his deeds, and that has been the Islamic doctrine.

The point which I emphasized is the answer to your main question in this thread - My answer is that ultimately God because he is the creator of everything but he cant be blamed for creating evil because he didnt coerce anyone to do evil. In fact he sent revelations and prophets to remind and warn people; it's a test of free will - so that maintains monotheism.

On the otherhand, you are guilty of polytheism because you have two creators, God and the devil. What would you call a belief of having more than one creator?