Re: Did God create evil/devil?

by **Ateo** Mon Aug 16, 2010 12:56 am

Fred, in the Creation Story, He placed the Tempter in the form of a serpent. Who created that serpent? Is there another creator? That is what Jewel called polytheism.

There is also that Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil that God put strategically in the middle of the garden. It caused all the troubles we now face, due to the so-called Free Will, which in itself is also God's invention. Gee, why did God place that tree there? Why didn't he simply put there the Tree of Catechism and Sacramentals? That way, we will all go to heaven without going through all these tests that humanity has to go through. God is rather naughty, was he not?

by MarcCatholic Mon Aug 16, 2010 1:36 am

Kuya Jewel thanks for spending effort replying my post. Abou this:

"Well, God, you knew before you created the creation that evil will come out of it, yet you allowed it to happen, so here I am, doomed...."

At least my point is He is not the creator. There's no problem there that He allowed evil since there are a lot of things also that we accept in life that are surely effects of the creation. It would be very bias to God if we complain only to evil while we enjoyed selfishly the world. It's my point also that if the person is intentionally committing evil, then there's really no point to blame God. Allowing evil in God's case will now suite on your idea that God will test people's loyalty to Him. Now you're explanation about the teacher rides on it already. What we're talking here is a matter of the "root" case. As I said, God would not want us to be robots that will serve Him out of choice but by obligation. Afterall, this will be a very boring life. Again, whatever it is, God's divine Will will never be thwarted by anyone even if it's evil. Thanks.

by vril Mon Aug 16, 2010 9:17 am

MarcCatholic wrote:I get that Kuya Jewel but what I am pointing at also is the effect of the analogy. It seems to sound the same but if God purposely created evil, not as an effect of his creation, then He should be evil also and there are two natures for God, He's evil and He's good. Either way if a person does good or evil, he should recognize God, recognize the creator of it per se and say "The hell god, with the evil you've done you successfully ruined my life even if I tried my best to be faithful to you." Illogical right? You know evil is the enemy of God and why would He create that only to "test" people while it's against His nature? Yes we are also tested through evil circumstances but that's the effect already, not God purposely created evil but only allowing it. He wills all to be saved right but also allowed people to do what they will and it's His responsibility also when people are damned because they were not able to pass the test because of his in demand evil being created. Maliban kung hindi siya ang creator, ang pagkapahamak ng mga tao ay kasalanan na nila at hindi na responsibilidad ni God.

if god is all good, why did he create hell? Was hell also an effect of man's fall from god? The fact that god created hell showed his evil side.

Where in the hell did evil come from if it was not created by anybody?! Who the hell tempted satan to rebel against god?! Was it envy and pride that started satan to rebel? Where did this traits come from if it were not from god who created these creatures?

Since god created everything you see and imagine, there's no point in saying he is not to blame.

Or maybe we're trying interpret everything written in the scriptures literally? Did man create these stories to mean something else to explain the concepts of evil and good?

by element_115x Mon Aug 16, 2010 12:52 pm

If God were real He'd join in this forum and state clearly what His true nature is. Right now all we based it upon are writings, apologetics, and our brains processing how things should be.

by **Ateo** Mon Aug 16, 2010 12:59 pm

element_115x wrote:If God were real He'd join in this forum and state clearly what His true nature is. Right now all we based it upon are writings, apologistics, and our brains processing how things should be.

That brings us to the other important alibis of theists -- the "last revelation". Each religion claims that they have the last revelation of God and that henceforth God would be very quiet and will not actively interfere with man. Before the so-called last revelation, God was so inquisitive and so concerned about human affairs, even choosing the wives of some of His favorite patriarchs like a nosey mother. But after the last revelation, He goes silent, so that is a convenient alibi why He could not come to this forum and explains himself (and zap the atheists as well).

So, Jesus claimed to be the last revelation. After He went back to heaven, that's it. Then 600 years later, Mohammad claim he received the last revelation. After he died, that's it. Then, Joseph Smith received the last revelation and after him, that's it. Then, Quiboloy, etc. etc. etc. The last revelation keeps on coming. But the concept is a good excuse why God is normally quiet in between revelations.

by fredms3 Mon Aug 16, 2010 2:16 pm

What about the revelation about there's no God, where is it?

by vril Mon Aug 16, 2010 3:16 pm

fredms3 wrote:What about the revelation about there's no God, where is it?

read the bible lol!

Bible: The First Revelation of God's Non-existence

by fredms3 Mon Aug 16, 2010 3:31 pm

vril wrote:

read the bible

Bible: The First Revelation of God's Non-existence

Uhmmmm...you're reading the Bible...that's good.

I think you know it. Why don't you post the verse and let me see it.

by vril Mon Aug 16, 2010 5:10 pm

fredms3 wrote:

Uhmmmm...you're reading the Bible...that's good.

I think you know it. Why don't you post the verse and let me see it.

1. god created everything is 6 days
2. burning bush
3. Man walking on water
4. talking donkeys
5. parting of sea
6. Man inside a whale for 3 days
7. the great flood
8. immaculate conception
9. Dead people risen
10. Invisible Angels talking to humans
11. Invisible devil talking to humans

All these things are clear proof that everything in the bible is about imagination and make believe stories.

by OneJack Mon Aug 16, 2010 5:45 pm

fredms3 wrote:

Ano yung turo ng Bible OJ...God created evil? Pakituro naman ty.

Ang totoo, wala pang creation, nandoon na ang evil.

by OneJack Mon Aug 16, 2010 5:46 pm

fredms3 wrote:

You too jewel can create evil in you ---- that that means you're a God also? Not at all..

O, eh saan ba galing si Jewel at ang lahat ng nasa kay Jewel?

by fredms3 Mon Aug 16, 2010 5:53 pm

vril wrote:

1. god created everything is 6 days
2. burning bush
3. Man walking on water
4. talking donkeys
5. parting of sea
6. Man inside a whale for 3 days
7. the great flood
8. immaculate conception
9. Dead people risen
10. Invisible Angels talking to humans
11. Invisible devil talking to humans

All these things are clear proof that everything in the bible is about imagination and make believe stories.

Do you believe in the theory of evolution?

by fredms3 Mon Aug 16, 2010 5:56 pm

OneJack wrote:
O, eh saan ba galing si Jewel at ang lahat ng nasa kay Jewel?

Yung mga kabalbalang mga pinagagawa ni Jewel ay hindi galing sa Diyos yun OJ. Siya ang gumawa nun.

Yung kasalanan ni Pedro bakit natin isisisi ke Juan dela Cruz?

by vril Tue Aug 17, 2010 9:21 am

fredms3 wrote:

Do you believe in the theory of evolution?

I believe in science

by fredms3 Tue Aug 17, 2010 9:50 am

vril wrote:

I believe in science

Yes or No lang bro ang hinihingi kong sagot.

by vril Tue Aug 17, 2010 10:17 am

fredms3 wrote:

Yes or No lang bro ang hinihingi kong sagot.

Yes.

by fredms3 Tue Aug 17, 2010 10:26 am

vril wrote:

Yes.

Dapat maniwala ka dun sa talking donkeys

by vril Tue Aug 17, 2010 10:56 am

fredms3 wrote:

Dapat maniwala ka dun sa talking donkeys

hahahha..you're funny. lol!

by OneJack Tue Aug 17, 2010 2:33 pm

fredms3 wrote:

Yung mga kabalbalang mga pinagagawa ni Jewel ay hindi galing sa Diyos yun OJ. Siya ang gumawa nun.

Yung kasalanan ni Pedro bakit natin isisisi ke Juan dela Cruz?

Tamang si Jewel ang nagpapasiya kung ano ang kanyang gagawain pero tandaan mo kahit ano ang gawin ni Jewel, ng sarili ko, ng sarili mo, sa masama man o sa mabuti man ang mga iyon, pawang galing lahat sa Dios iyon dahil nailatag na noon pa man ng Dios ang lahat ng bagay para sa atin kung alin ang ating pipiliin. Wala kang masasabing anomang bagay na hindi galing sa Dios dahilan sa tanging ang Dios lamang ang lumalang sa lahat. Kahit ang Dios ang pinanggagalingan ng masama, alalahanin mo lamang na pinalalayo tayo ng Dios sa masama kaya kung sinoman ang gagawa ng masama, nasasa kanya na iyon at ang Dios ang bahalang sumingil sa kasamaang ginawa niya. Hindi angkol ang kasalanan ni Pedro na binanggit mo dahil hindi naman isinisisi sa Dios ang kasamaan kahit pa Siya ang pinagmumulan nito.

by Jewel Tue Aug 17, 2010 4:49 pm

fredms3 wrote:

Yung mga kabalbalang mga pinagagawa ni Jewel ay hindi galing sa Diyos yun OJ. Siya ang gumawa nun.

Pano yan paring fred, halos lahat ay agree sakin na Diyos talaga ang may gawa ng lahat?

fredms3 wrote:
Yung kasalanan ni Pedro bakit natin isisisi ke Juan dela Cruz?

Problema yan kasi kasalanan ng mga tao ay ipinapasan kay Jesus; parang Muslim ka na ngayon fred ah Very Happy

by fredms3 Tue Aug 17, 2010 8:28 pm

vril wrote:

hahahha..you're funny.

Korak ka dyan, medyo nakakatawa nga, pero paano yan vril, nagkontrahan ang paniniwala mo.

Naniniwala ka kay Charles D. pero sa power ni God na papagsalitain ang donkey ay di ka naniniwala,

Pwede mo ngang kausapin yung donkey eh pati yung mga nasa Manila Zoo

by fredms3 Wed Aug 18, 2010 12:24 am

Jewel wrote:

Pano yan paring fred, halos lahat ay agree sakin na Diyos talaga ang may gawa ng lahat?

Oks lang yun Jewel. Dapat kumbinsihin mo rin si Ateo tungkol dyan hehehehe. Kumbinsido ka rin ba sa bulong kay OJ ha bro?

Jewel wrote:

Problema yan kasi kasalanan ng mga tao ay ipinapasan kay Jesus; parang Muslim ka na ngayon fred ah

Pareho tayo sa isyung yan except dyan sa creation ng evil.

by vril Wed Aug 18, 2010 8:31 am

fredms3 wrote:

Korak ka dyan, medyo nakakatawa nga, pero paano yan vril, nagkontrahan ang paniniwala mo.

Naniniwala ka kay Charles D. pero sa power ni God na papagsalitain ang donkey ay di ka naniniwala,

Pwede mo ngang kausapin yung donkey eh pati yung mga nasa Manila Zoo

I'm not surprised you can't see the difference.

by Jewel Wed Aug 18, 2010 2:17 pm

fredms3 wrote:

Oks lang yun Jewel. Dapat kumbinsihin mo rin si Ateo tungkol dyan hehehehe. Kumbinsido ka rin ba sa bulong kay OJ ha bro?

Di na kelangan kumbinsihin pa si ateo kasi mukhang naiintindihan nya ang point ko, 85% mukhang agree din sakin na Diyos lang ang lumikha ng lahat.

Pareho tayo sa isyung yan except dyan sa creation ng evil.

Naku, para sakin, no offense pero irrational ang doctrine na ipapasan kay Jesus ang kasalanan ng mga tao, turo yan ng mythology. Kung tinubos na ni Jesus ang kasalanan ng mga tao dapat saved na ang lahat maniwala ka man sa kanya o hindi, paid ka na kumbaga eh hehheeh.

Tungkol naman sa issue natin kung sino ang lumikha ng evil, and standing natin ay malina, nasa pure monotheism parin ako kasi iisa lang ang creator na lahat para sakin, samantalang guilty ka na ng polytheism kasi dalawa ang creator/s mo; God and satan. Dilikado yan paring fred Basketball

by fredms3 Wed Aug 18, 2010 2:57 pm

vril wrote:

I'm not surprised you can't see the difference.

Mukhang ikaw ang hindi nakakuha ng gusto kong sabihin ah kapatid. You believe in evolution but you don't believe in talking donkeys. Did you get the logic of what i'm telling you?

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