Re: Did God create evil/devil?

by element_115x Fri Aug 13, 2010 9:39 am

Hmmm.... what if Lucifer didn't become Satan? What will happen if he didn't rebel? What will a world without a sense of 'evil' be like???

by vril Fri Aug 13, 2010 9:45 am

Ateo wrote:I think God's worst invention was freewill itself, kasi iyan ang source ng sin ni Adam at ang evil ni Satan.

Bakit nga ba gumawa si God ng FreeWill? For fun? Kasi kung obedient robots tayong lahat, di exciting kay God? Pero sana menos ang suffering, di ba?

yes, adam and eve was in perfect state. god played a little bit with his creation and put them in paradise near the tree of knowledge of good and evil and let his partner Lucifer into his thing and allowed them to be tempted. Boom! Here we are doomed for eternal damnation....Now god wisen up and didn't wanna throw his precious creation to waste, deviced a plan to save everyone but this salvation is not free of condition and went on to say to mankind : "worship me you idiots!"

by **Ateo** Fri Aug 13, 2010 9:54 am

Hahahaha! Parang pumalpak si God doon, vril, ah. Perfect na sana, innocent couples spending their days giving names to the animals. They don't even have to shop for clothes. And their pet lion was vegetarian. Then God played a little trick by putting a cute little tree in the garden and a sweet-tongued serpent. The rest is history. Millions suffered during Noah's flood and billions will barbecue in Hell. All for one tiny bug in God's design -- Free Will.

by element_115x Fri Aug 13, 2010 10:09 am

Free will is a cop out no matter how i look at it. Apologists would do everything to defend and justify it. It's the lamest excuse ever used to not implicate anyone ever. And it is the greatest single item used by religious groups. Without it, their belief system would fall into pieces hehe.

by vril Fri Aug 13, 2010 10:10 am

Ateo wrote:Hahahaha! Parang pumalpak si God doon, vril, ah. Perfect na sana, innocent couples spending their days naming the animals. God played a little trick by putting a cute little tree in the garden and a sweet-tongued serpent. The rest is history. Millions suffered during Noah's flood and billions will barbecue in Hell. All for one tiny bug in God's design -- Free Will.

korek!

by vril Fri Aug 13, 2010 10:14 am

element_115x wrote:Free will is a cop out no matter how i look at it. Apologists would do everything to defend and justify it. It's the lamest excuse ever used to not implicate anyone ever.

Hi element,

god said: "worship me or else".....is this freewill? Isn't man being forced to do good with thoughts of hell hanging behind his head?

by **Ateo** Fri Aug 13, 2010 10:17 am

Very true. The "worship me or else" is a clear proof that there is no freewill.

It is like saying, "You are free to believe in anything but it has to be the Trinitarian God that saves only by grace through faith."

by element_115x Fri Aug 13, 2010 10:21 am

That's God giving us 'tough love' hehe

by fredms3 Fri Aug 13, 2010 10:45 am

Jewel wrote:

Wrong! the rapist is to be blamed because he chose to do evil despite God's Law. You have your free will, so you are responsible to it.

You are actually agreeing with me jewel --- that satan is to be blamed because of misuse of his freewill.

Lucifer chose to disobey God. The rapist chose it also. Lucifer was created with the zeal of perfection. That man (rapist) was cleansed through baptism making him an adopted son of God.

That's the picture of it my friend. If you blame God what had happened to satan then blame God also for what had happened to the rapist, both are created by God.

by fredms3 Fri Aug 13, 2010 10:55 am

The way you reason all friends is a proof that there's indeed freewill, otherwise, we can hear all saying like cow: Oohhhhhh --- yessssssss

by element_115x Fri Aug 13, 2010 10:58 am

fredms3 wrote:The way you reason all friends is a proof that there's indeed freewill, otherwise, we can hear all saying like cow: Oohhhhhh --- yessssssss

Nope. That's like placing a constant variable for the very reason for our being. Razz

by vril Fri Aug 13, 2010 10:59 am

fredms3 wrote:The way you reason all friends is a proof that there's indeed freewill, otherwise, we can hear all saying like cow: Oohhhhhh --- yessssssss

Rationality is not proof of freewill. Let's not mix things up. Razz

by fredms3 Fri Aug 13, 2010 11:01 am

vril wrote:

Rationality is not proof of freewill. Let's not mix things up.

And what kind of rationality will you have without that freewill?

by fredms3 Fri Aug 13, 2010 11:03 am

element_115x wrote:

Nope. That's like placing a constant variable for the very reason for our being.

Exactly. But is that happening to us now?

by element_115x Fri Aug 13, 2010 11:11 am

fredms3 wrote:

Exactly. But is that happening to us now?

What is happening???

by vril Fri Aug 13, 2010 11:17 am

fredms3 wrote:

And what kind of rationality will you have without that freewill?

What do you mean? Like if i'm confronted by a killer and and have no choice but to defend myself? I think you're mixing things up Fred.

Freewill is choice. Free to choose. Rationality on the otherhand is trying make sense of things. So I dont get what you're asking.

by vril Fri Aug 13, 2010 11:18 am

element_115x wrote:

What is happening???

by fredms3 Fri Aug 13, 2010 11:25 am

vril wrote:

What do you mean? Like if i'm confronted by a killer and and have no choice but to defend myself? I think you're mixing things up Fred.

Freewill is choice. Free to choose. Rationality on the otherhand is trying make sense of things. So I dont get what you're asking.

Killer? Do you think God will create a killer in his creation?

Rationality will never exist in place where there's no freewill Vril. Can you get now what i mean?

by OneJack Fri Aug 13, 2010 11:28 am

vril wrote:

What do you mean? Like if i'm confronted by a killer and and have no choice but to defend myself? I think you're mixing things up Fred.

Freewill is choice. Free to choose. Rationality on the otherhand is trying make sense of things. So I dont get what you're asking.

Sa thread na lang tayo, magkatunog kasi ang thread at saka ang fred, ayan tuloy, parang magulo ang dating. Lahat ng bagay (walang matatangi ke evil pa iyan o hindi, ke badaf pa iyan o lesbian, o kahit ano pa na maiisip mo) na ating nakikita at di nakikita ay mula sa Dios na may lalang ng mga ito.

by element_115x Fri Aug 13, 2010 11:31 am

Akala ko mula sa Diyos na di nakikita, hehe

by vril Fri Aug 13, 2010 12:03 pm

OneJack wrote:

Sa thread na lang tayo, magkatunog kasi ang thread at saka ang fred, ayan tuloy, parang magulo ang dating. Lahat ng bagay (walang matatangi ke evil pa iyan o hindi, ke badaf pa iyan o lesbian, o kahit ano pa na maiisip mo) na ating nakikita at di nakikita ay mula sa Dios na may lalang ng mga ito.

tama!..Thanks OneJack. Ewan ko ba bat nauwi sa iba.

by vril Fri Aug 13, 2010 12:06 pm

fredms3 wrote:

Killer? Do you think God will create a killer in his creation?

Rationality will never exist in place where there's no freewill Vril. Can you get now what i mean?

We're going off track Fred. And you are wrong when you said rationality will never exist in place where there's no choice. I really think you're mixing things up. Unless you're talking about robots.

by fredms3 Fri Aug 13, 2010 12:27 pm

vril wrote:

We're going off track Fred. And you are wrong when you said rationality will never exist in place where there's no choice. I really think you're mixing things up. Unless you're talking about robots.

We're on track Vril.

How and what will you rationalize in a place where there's no freewill? You don't have options to rationalize in the first place. You have it ----- robots ----.

by vril Fri Aug 13, 2010 12:30 pm

fredms3 wrote:

We're on track Vril.

How and what will you rationalize in a place where there's no freewill? You don't have options to rationalize in the first place. You have it ----- robots ----.

robots are not humans.

by fredms3 Fri Aug 13, 2010 12:37 pm

vril wrote:

robots are not humans.

Robotic humans. All are scripted. What we'll say is just: Yes Lord...Is that what you want Vril?

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