Is God present in hell as He is in heaven?

fredms3 wrote:
It does not belie Omnipresence, on the contrary it proves the two --- Omnipresence and Omniscience.

"Where can i flee from your presence?" ---- the following lines answer that question.

If you do cherry-picking, then yes, but if you read the context of the whole passage the answer is no because it says that:

²³ Search me, O God, and know my heart;
test me and know my anxious thoughts.

So how would an omnipresent be told to search something when he is everywhere?⁷ Where can I go from your Spirit?
Where can I flee from your presence?

I think it is clear that this means infinite knowledge of God - wherever you God you cant flee from God because he knows where will you go.

This is why I was asking :

how great/big God is, or which is bigger, God or the whole creation?

Is God present in Satan's stomach, yes or no?

We'll find out whether or not the belief that God is omnipresent is logical.


Thanks

Jewel wrote:

If you do cherry-picking, then yes, but if you read the context of the whole passage the answer is no because it says that:

²³ Search me, O God, and know my heart;
test me and know my anxious thoughts.

So how would an omnipresent be told to search something when he is everywhere?⁷ Where can I go from your Spirit?
Where can I flee from your presence?

I think it is clear that this means infinite knowledge of God - wherever you God you cant flee from God because he knows where will you go.

This is why I was asking :

how great/big God is, or which is bigger, God or the whole creation?

Is God present in Satan's stomach, yes or no?

We'll find out whether or not the belief that God is omnipresent is logical.


Thanks

Nothing about cherry-picking but about understanding what each line is telling us.

Lines 1-6 speak of God's Omniscience, Lines 7-10 speak of God's Omnipresence. That's very clear there and no cherry-picking as you alleged.

God is not being told to search something but He is being asked by David WHERE can he flee from His presence. This indeed presupposes that God is present everywhere. And that is being predicated in the following lines:

⁸ If I go up to the heavens, you are there;
if I make my bed in the depths, ^[a] you are there.

Now, to your question:

Job 11 (New International Version)
Zophar

¹ Then Zophar the Naamathite replied:
² "Are all these words to go unanswered?
Is this talker to be vindicated?
³ Will your idle talk reduce men to silence?
Will no one rebuke you when you mock?
⁴ You say to God, 'My beliefs are flawless
and I am pure in your sight.'
⁵ Oh, how I wish that God would speak,
that he would open his lips against you
⁶ and disclose to you the secrets of wisdom,
for true wisdom has two sides.
Know this: God has even forgotten some of your sin.
⁷ "Can you fathom the mysteries of God?
Can you probe the limits of the Almighty?
⁸ They are higher than the heavens—what can you do?
They are deeper than the depths of the grave ^[a] —what can you know?
⁹ Their measure is longer than the earth
and wider than the sea.
¹⁰ "If he comes along and confines you in prison
and convenes a court, who can oppose him?
¹¹ Surely he recognizes deceitful men;
and when he sees evil, does he not take note?
¹² But a witless man can no more become wise
than a wild donkey's colt can be born a man. ^[b]
13 "Yet if you devote your heart to him
and stretch out your hands to him,
¹⁴ if you put away the sin that is in your hand
and allow no evil to dwell in your tent,
¹⁵ then you will lift up your face without shame;
you will stand firm and without fear.
¹⁶ You will surely forget your trouble,
recalling it only as waters gone by.
¹⁷ Life will be brighter than noonday,
and darkness will become like morning.
¹⁸ You will be secure, because there is hope;
you will look about you and take your rest in safety.
¹⁹ You will lie down, with no one to make you afraid,
and many will court your favor.
²⁰ But the eyes of the wicked will fail,
and escape will elude them;
their hope will become a dying gasp."


Better ask yourself: Can you fathom the mysteries of God? Can you probe the limits of the Almighty?

Let us move on to Soriano's errors concerning the
attributes of God. As alluded to above, he does not believe that God is
omnipresent. In his sermon on "the salvation that is being taught by the
Bible" he adduces a few facile arguments in support of this claim. (1)
Because we lift our eyes to heaven and pray "Our Father who art in
heaven" he alleges that God is not everywhere, but in heaven only. (2)
He quotes "Hail Mary, Full of grace, the Lord is with thee" and asks the
following incredulous questions: "Where is God, this time? Which is
true now? Is He everywhere? Is He in heaven? Or, is He in Mary? You are
fooling yourselves!" (3) He attempts a reductio ad absurdum: "If
you are claiming that God is everywhere, it follows that He is also in
cabarets, night clubs, sauna baths, and gambling dens because your God
is everywhere." (4) He quotes Acts 17:24: "God that made the world and
all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth
not in temples made with hands."⁵⁸

Before refuting him point by point I will note that
Soriano is here contradicting the overwhelming testimony of Sacred
Scripture to the omnipresence of God. God is simultaneously in heaven
and on earth: "He is God in heaven above and on the earth below; there
is no other" (Deut 4:39). The heavens cannot contain Him: "But will God
indeed dwell on the earth? Behold, heaven and the highest heaven cannot
contain You, how much less this house which I have built! (1 Kings 8:27)
His presence extends from heaven to earth: "Thus says the LORD, 'Heaven
is My throne and the earth is My footstool." (Isa 66:1) God's presence
fills all space from the highest heaven to the depths of sheol (hell)
and everything in between: "Can you discover the depths of God? Can you
discover the limits of the Almighty? They are high as the heavens, what
can you do? Deeper than Sheol, what can you know? Its measure is longer
than the earth, and broader than the sea" (Job 11:7-9). Again: "Where
can I go from Your Spirit? Or where can I flee from Your presence? If I
ascend to heaven, You are there; if I make my bed in Sheol, behold, You
are there. If I take the wings of the dawn, if I dwell in the remotest
part of the sea, even there Your hand will lead me, and Your right hand
will lay hold of me" (Psalm 138:7-10). God fills the entirety of the
heavens and the earth: "'Can a man hide himself in hiding places so I do
not see him?' declares the LORD. 'Do I not fill the heavens and the
earth?' declares the LORD" (Jer 23:24). He is omnipresent; we live and
move in Him, and He sustains and holds all things in existence by a
continual act: "For in Him we live and move and exist" (Acts 17:28).
Again: "He [Christ] is before all things, and in Him all things hold
together" (Col 1:17; cf. Heb 1:3).


Next, in order to resolve the apparent contradiction
between these verses and the passages which Soriano alleges against the
omnipresence of God, it is necessary to provide some theological
background. There are many senses in which God can be "present" in a
place, and He may be present in one sense of the word but not present in
another. Ott distinguishes as follows:

Since the time of Petrus Lombardus
(Sent. I 37, 1) theologians more closely determine the omnipresence of
God as a presence according to power (per potentiam--dynamic presence),
according to knowledge (per praesentiam sive scientiam--ideal presence),
and according to essence (per essentiam--essential or substantial
presence). Through this essence He is present substantially in all
things, including the created spiritual essences (angels, demons, human
souls), as the immediate origin of their existence. Cf. S. th. I 8, 3.
The substantial omnipresence of God is to be more closely defined as a
repletive presence, that is, the whole Divine Essence fills the whole
created space and every one of its parts...

In addition to this general, natural, presence of
God, there is also a special supernatural presence or indwelling of God,
by the supernatural efficacy of His grace, in the soul of the just man
(John 14:23; 1 Cor 3:16; 6:19), in the house of God (Ps 131:13 et seq.)
and in Heaven (Mt 6:9).⁵⁹

Now we are ready to counter Soriano's contentious
claims. (1) We direct our prayers heavenward because that is where the
saints and angels see God as He is, face to face, where God is present
according to His grace and love to the fullest extent. This does not
mean that He is not also present elsewhere, as is clear from Soriano's
objection (2), wherein he quotes from a Catholic prayer which is lifted
directly from the pages of Sacred Scripture: "Hail [Mary], full of
grace, the Lord is with thee" (Luke 1:28). Obviously, if the Bible tells
us that God is both in heaven and with Mary, both are true. God
indwells the soul of Mary just as He dwells in heaven. (3) Of course,
God does not spiritually indwell the souls of great sinners in places of
sin. However, He is there in the three senses that He is
everywhere, enumerated above, namely according to power, knowledge, and
essence. Recall that God fills the earth (Jer 23:24), that is,
there is no place on earth that He is not. The psalmist could not escape
the presence of God by going down to sheol (Psalm 138:7-10); neither
can we escape the presence of God by going to a brothel. Indeed, God
might be operative by His grace in the souls of the patrons of places of
sin, leading them to repentance and regeneration in Christ. Nowhere is
beyond His reach.


(4) Finally, Soriano has wrenched Acts 17:24 from its
context and construed it to mean something wholly foreign to the intent
of St. Paul. St. Paul is dealing with pagans who believed, like Soriano,
in finite gods who could be circumscribed in a certain place. They
believed that their gods dwelt in the temples and idols that they carved
for them, as though the gods needed these things (v. 25) for homes. St.
Paul proclaims to them, on the contrary, that God cannot be thus
confined, that he does not need anything from us, and that He is
omnipresent, for "in Him we live and move and exist" (v. 28). That
having been said, as noted above God may choose to spiritually indwell a
temple in order to receive the prayer and worship of the faithful who
pray and worship there. "For the LORD has chosen Zion; He has desired it
for His habitation. 'This is My resting place forever; here I will
dwell, for I have desired it'" (Psalm 132:13-14; cf. Gen 28:22). God
does not dwell in houses of pagan worship, but He does indeed dwell in
legitimate houses of worship established according to His desires. These
are Catholic Churches.
source: http://www.pugiofidei.com/ang.htm#6

If god is present in hell, how is he able to separate his most gracious love and his most merciful heart from the eternal torments he sees?

fredms3 wrote:

Lalabas nyan brother na alang pinag-iba si God sa atin. Kahit saan pwede nating puntahan. Ano sa tingin mo?

"...Don't you know that ye are Gods..." nga sabi sa Bible di vah? hehehe Anyways, it's confusing sometimes to talk about the metaphysical if it's overshaded by anthropomorphism eh... nag mi-mix ang ideas tuloy.

I'll give my answer to the thread question later.

God is Timeless and Placeless.

God is everywhere at once and He is beyond Place.

God is everywhen at once and He is beyond Time. God is within Time and beyond Time. God is within Place and beyond Place.

We say “God is everywhere.” But God can only be everywhere because He is beyond Place. Otherwise, He would be distributed in pieces, part of Him here and the rest of Him there. God is One, therefore, God cannot be stretched out in Place or stretched out in Time. God is One, therefore, God must be beyond Time and beyond Place. God is unbounded by Time and Place.

God is not bound by space and time...wow I like that! Einstein would be like "WOW" when he will see God face to face.

element_115x wrote:

"...Don't you know that ye are Gods..." nga sabi sa Bible di vah? hehehe Anyways, it's confusing sometimes to talk about the metaphysical if it's overshaded by anthropomorphism eh... nag mi-mix ang ideas tuloy.

Small g lang yun bro as in 'gods'. Rambolan na nga yan.

fredms3 wrote:

Nothing about cherry-picking but about understanding what each line is telling us.

Lines 1-6 speak of God's Omniscience, Lines 7-10 speak of God's Omnipresence. That's very clear there and no cherry-picking as you alleged.

God is not being told to search something but He is being asked by David WHERE can he flee from His presence. This indeed presupposes that God is present everywhere. And that is being predicated in the following lines:

⁸ If I go up to the heavens, you are there;
if I make my bed in the depths, ^[a] you are there.

Now, to your question:

Job 11 (New International Version)
Zophar

¹ Then Zophar the Naamathite replied:
² "Are all these words to go unanswered?
Is this talker to be vindicated?
³ Will your idle talk reduce men to silence?
Will no one rebuke you when you mock?
⁴ You say to God, 'My beliefs are flawless
and I am pure in your sight.'
⁵ Oh, how I wish that God would speak,
that he would open his lips against you
⁶ and disclose to you the secrets of wisdom,
for true wisdom has two sides.
Know this: God has even forgotten some of your sin.
⁷ "Can you fathom the mysteries of God?
Can you probe the limits of the Almighty?
⁸ They are higher than the heavens—what can you do?
They are deeper than the depths of the grave ^[a] —what can you know?
⁹ Their measure is longer than the earth
and wider than the sea.
¹⁰ "If he comes along and confines you in prison
and convenes a court, who can oppose him?
¹¹ Surely he recognizes deceitful men;
and when he sees evil, does he not take note?
¹² But a witless man can no more become wise
than a wild donkey's colt can be born a man. ^[b]
13 "Yet if you devote your heart to him
and stretch out your hands to him,
¹⁴ if you put away the sin that is in your hand
and allow no evil to dwell in your tent,
¹⁵ then you will lift up your face without shame;
you will stand firm and without fear.
¹⁶ You will surely forget your trouble,
recalling it only as waters gone by.
¹⁷ Life will be brighter than noonday,
and darkness will become like morning.
¹⁸ You will be secure, because there is hope;
you will look about you and take your rest in safety.
¹⁹ You will lie down, with no one to make you afraid,
and many will court your favor.
²⁰ But the eyes of the wicked will fail,
and escape will elude them;
their hope will become a dying gasp."


Better ask yourself: Can you fathom the mysteries of God? Can you probe the limits of the Almighty?

I interpreted the whole passage which you gave and it is clear that what it talks about is omniscience. I already explained the passage which somehow implies omnipresence, that tho the word used is "where" yet the meaning and the context is about God's infinite knowledge and not being omnipresent because Jesus made it clear that God is in heaven, therefore he is not on earth or everywhere which is not refuted.

Moreover the question on is God present in Satan's stomach is also unanswered, why? Oh yes, your answer is neither yes nor no. You are supposed to answer yes because if you say no that disproves omnipresence because there is a space/place where God is not present - however, if you say yes, then there is God inside Satan's stomach.

See the difficulty now? So all that you can say "it's a mystery" - but i say that it is not a mystery, it is in fact illogical to say that God is omnipresent because of the unanswered question above.


Thanks

Jewel wrote:

I interpreted the whole passage which you gave and it is clear that what it talks about is omniscience. I already explained the passage which somehow implies omnipresence, that tho the word used is "where" yet the meaning and the context is about God's infinite knowledge and not being omnipresent because Jesus made it clear that God is in heaven, therefore he is not on earth or everywhere which is not refuted.

Moreover the question on is God present in Satan's stomach is also unanswered, why? Oh yes, your answer is neither yes nor no. You are supposed to answer yes because if you say no that disproves omnipresence because there is a space/place where God is not present - however, if you say yes, then there is God inside Satan's stomach.

See the difficulty now? So all that you can say "it's a mystery" - but i say that it is not a mystery, it is in fact illogical to say that God is omnipresent because of the unanswered question above.


Thanks

Your limitation of God is refuted here:

"Can you fathom the mysteries of God?
Can you probe the limits of the Almighty?
⁸ They are higher than the heavens—what can you do?
They are deeper than the depths of the grave ^[a] —what can you know?
⁹ Their measure is longer than the earth

That's self-explanatory.

God dwells in heaven, but that doesn't disprove Job: 7-9 but proves the Omnipresence of God the more.

With this, your question answered.

fredms3 wrote:Your limitation of God is refuted here:

"Can you fathom the mysteries of God?
Can you probe the limits of the Almighty?
⁸ They are higher than the heavens—what can you do?
They are deeper than the depths of the grave ^[a] —what can you know?
⁹ Their measure is longer than the earth

That's self-explanatory.

God dwells in heaven, but that doesn't disprove Job: 7-9 but proves the Omnipresence of God the more.

With this, your question answered.

Wow! watta strawman!!!

Did I say I am limiting God?

What I did is deny your claim about God that he is omnipresent because it is illogical; is God illogical, I dont think so; if you believe that God is illogical, then you are free to have that belief but in a discussion like this, no sane person would agree that God is illogical simply because God is all wise - you cant have an all wise and illogical at the same time - that is the same of saying that you have a stuff which is fully white and fully black at the same time.

The mystery excuse is i think an extremely weak stuff to offer because we are not talking about something that is clearly written; we are deducing ideas here my dear. If the idea can be proven to be illogical, you cant appeal to mystery because mystery can neither proven to be right or wrong.

Still, my question is not answered because I didnt see any clear answer:

Is God present in satan's stomach, YES or NO?

Or simply like this: Where is God now?

Jewel wrote:

Wow! watta strawman!!!

Did I say I am limiting God?

What I did is deny your claim about God that he is omnipresent because it is illogical; is God illogical, I dont think so; if you believe that God is illogical, then you are free to have that belief but in a discussion like this, no sane person would agree that God is illogical simply because God is all wise - you cant have an all wise and illogical at the same time - that is the same of saying that you have a stuff which is fully white and fully black at the same time.

The mystery excuse is i think an extremely weak stuff to offer because we are not talking about something that is clearly written; we are deducing ideas here my dear. If the idea can be proven to be illogical, you cant appeal to mystery because mystery can neither proven to be right or wrong.

Still, my question is not answered because I didnt see any clear answer:

Is God present in satan's stomach, YES or NO?

Or simply like this: Where is God now?

Strawman? Omnipresence illogical?

Limiting God to one place is the same as denying His Omnipresence lolsss. Did you get that mi amigo.

Ask yourself if you really understand what is being said in Job 11:7-9, else, sorry to tell you...you really have a big problem.

Now, to answer you directly Yes! He is in satan's stomach.

Now, prove to me that God is not in satan's stomach...

fredms3 wrote:

Strawman? Omnipresence illogical?

Limiting God to one place is the same as denying His Omnipresence lolsss. Did you get that mi amigo.

Hehehe, dont get mad, relax, we are just discussing here

I am not limiting God, I just dont want to attribute something to God which he is not.

In fact you are the one limiting God because in the other thread you said that God cant create evil - so there is something that God can not do - so who is limiting God now?

God is all knowing (omniscience) and his knowledge is infinite and absolute, there is no need for God to be in every place to know or understand what's going on, so there is no lolsss there hehehhee

Ask yourself if you really understand what is being said in Job 11:7-9, else, sorry to tell you...you really have a big problem.

I already explained the context that what it meant is the absolute knowledge of God, but you seem to ignore it. Does God need to be in Philippines in order to know everything what is going on there, yes or no?

Now, to answer you directly Yes! He is in satan's stomach.

Wow! watta guts! So Satan's stomach is filled with God now - oh boy! What is God doing there? oh boy

Now, prove to me that God is not in satan's stomach...

Sure! Jesus said in the Gospel according to Matthew, let alone the Quran, that God is in heaven (Our father thou art in heaven), therefore he is not in Satan's stomach

Now, prove to me that God is in satan's stomach, it's your turn now my dear


Oh boy

Jewel wrote:

Hehehe, dont get mad, relax, we are just discussing here

I am not limiting God, I just dont want to attribute something to God which he is not.

In fact you are the one limiting God because in the other thread you said that God cant create evil - so there is something that God can not do - so who is limiting God now?

God is all knowing (omniscience) and his knowledge is infinite and absolute, there is no need for God to be in every place to know or understand what's going on, so there is no lolsss there hehehhee



I already explained the context that what it meant is the absolute knowledge of God, but you seem to ignore it. Does God need to be in Philippines in order to know everything what is going on there, yes or no?




Wow! watta guts! So Satan's stomach is filled with God now - oh boy! What is God doing there? oh boy



Sure! Jesus said in the Gospel according to Matthew, let alone the Quran, that God is in heaven (Our father thou art in heaven), therefore he is not in Satan's stomach

Now, prove to me that God is in satan's stomach, it's your turn now my dear


Oh boy

1. Uhmmm...I'm laughing actually.

You're not limiting God (really?) but you deny God's Omnipresence oh boy ---- how is that mi amigo? Ouch..that's it: You did not understand what Job 11:7-9 says. Simple as that.

2. Your explanation doesn't fit the context of Job 11 mi amigo.

3. Indeed heaven is God's dwelling place, He is visibly present to the blessed....Outside heaven he is present in His Spiritual substance.

Then again Job and David say it all mi amigo about God's Omnipresence.

Btw, God is not only present in satan's stomach. He is actually present in hell...Do you know that?


Psalm 139:1-8 (New International Version)
For the director of music. Of David. A psalm.

¹ O LORD, you have searched me
and you know me.
² You know when I sit and when I rise;
you perceive my thoughts from afar.
³ You discern my going out and my lying down;
you are familiar with all my ways.
⁴ Before a word is on my tongue
you know it completely, O LORD.
⁵ You hem me in—behind and before;
you have laid your hand upon me.
⁶ Such knowledge is too wonderful for me,
too lofty for me to attain.
⁷ Where can I go from your Spirit?
Where can I flee from your presence?
⁸ If I go up to the heavens, you are there;
if I make my bed in the depths, ^[a] you are there.

God's Omnipresence.....Very well answered by Job and David.


Btw, Can you provide me a verse saying that God is not present everywhere? I doubt it very much...let's see your excuse.

Anyway, have a nice reading on this.

I don't quite agree with you, Fred. [Assuming that God exists] God's omnipresence is not the same as immanence. Immanence is the concept that God is the Universe and He is therefore present in every atom of the Universe. Immanence is a concept that is part of the belief system of Deists and even of Witness Lee.

God CAN be anywhere if He wants to, but He is not necessarily there unless there is a reason for Him to. He is NOT in hell, unless He was there for a purpose -- to collect rent, to have a chat with Satan, or to drop by before He was resurrected. But He is not necessarily in Hell at this time. God does not have to everywhere at all times. If that is the case, then it would lead to some absurd conclusion that He is also in my toilet bowl as I flush it. Why would He want to be there. He could be there if He needed to be there, but there is no reason to stay there as I use the bowl.

Ateo wrote:I don't quite agree with you, Fred. [Assuming that God exists] God's omnipresence is not the same as immanence. Immanence is the concept that God is the Universe and He is therefore present in every atom of the Universe. Immanence is a concept that is part of the belief system of Deists and even of Witness Lee.

God CAN be anywhere if He wants to, but He is not necessarily there unless there is a reason for Him to. He is NOT in hell, unless He was there for a purpose -- to collect rent, to have a chat with Satan, or to drop by before He was resurrected. But He is not necessarily in Hell at this time. God does not have to everywhere at all times. If that is the case, then it would lead to some absurd conclusion that He is also in my toilet bowl as I flush it. Why would He want to be there. He could be there if He needed to be there, but there is no reason to stay there as I use the bowl.

Fred has no problem having his God in your toilet ateo because he even said that God is present in Satan's stomach hehehhehe

That means that God is also present in his stomach and everybody's stomach, and also in every filthy places even those toilet which have mountains of human excrement unflashed in the bowl because there is no water, and urine overflowing in a clogged water outlet mixed with stool ewwww

Just to reiterate:

Where is the verse saying that God is not present everywhere...

Ateo wrote:I don't quite agree with you, Fred. [Assuming that God exists] God's omnipresence is not the same as immanence. Immanence is the concept that God is the Universe and He is therefore present in every atom of the Universe. Immanence is a concept that is part of the belief system of Deists and even of Witness Lee.

God CAN be anywhere if He wants to, but He is not necessarily there unless there is a reason for Him to. He is NOT in hell, unless He was there for a purpose -- to collect rent, to have a chat with Satan, or to drop by before He was resurrected. But He is not necessarily in Hell at this time. God does not have to everywhere at all times. If that is the case, then it would lead to some absurd conclusion that He is also in my toilet bowl as I flush it. Why would He want to be there. He could be there if He needed to be there, but there is no reason to stay there as I use the bowl.

Ateo,

I don't agree either that God is the Universe. God is neither time nor space-bounded.

Read carefully the verses I have posted for your appreciation.

@ fred

Your question about the verse in in the Gospel according to matthew (our father thou art in heaven) - also Jesus whom you believe to be God too is also in heaven - unless heaven and everywhere is the same to you.....


This is my question for you now fred:

Before God created the universe where was He?

Jewel wrote:@ fred

Your question about the verse in in the Gospel according to matthew (our father thou art in heaven) - also Jesus whom you believe to be God too is also in heaven - unless heaven and everywhere is the same to you.....


This is my question for you now fred:

Before God created the universe where was He?

Jewel,

In heaven you can see God face to face. Outside of heaven, He is present spiritually in His substance.

To answer your question: God is in Himself. God is in His Glory.

quote="fredms3"]

Jewel,

In heaven you can see God face to face. Outside of heaven, He is present spiritually in His substance.

To answer your question: God is in Himself. God is in His Glory.[/quote]

Salamat sa sagot fred.


I just want you to clarify what do you mean by "outside of heaven, he is present spiritually in his substance" - What do you mean by "his substance"?

One more thing, i didnt understand you answer to my question where was God before he created the universe. You said that God was in himself, which is very confusing because "himself" and "glory" are not a places or locations. what do you really mean by that?

Thanks

Jewel wrote:quote="fredms3"]

Jewel,

In heaven you can see God face to face. Outside of heaven, He is present spiritually in His substance.

To answer your question: God is in Himself. God is in His Glory.

Salamat sa sagot fred.


I just want you to clarify what do you mean by "outside of heaven, he is present spiritually in his substance" - What do you mean by "his substance"?

One more thing, i didnt understand you answer to my question where was God before he created the universe. You said that God was in himself, which is very confusing because "himself" and "glory" are not a places or locations. what do you really mean by that?

Thanks[/quote]

Jewel,

That simply means --- in spirit.

As i've said, God is neither time nor space bounded. He is not confined to one place. He is everywhere.

Jewel,

That simply means --- in spirit.

What do you mean by in spirit? Your answer is really vague. If God is in heaven, then he is in heaven. So what is that "in spirit" means?

As i've said, God is neither time nor space bounded. He is not confined to one place. He is everywhere.

You are roaming around the bush fred. I asked you where was God before He created the universe, and now you said he is everywhere. How can you speak of everywhere when there was no creation in the first place?

Jewel wrote:@ fred

Your question about the verse in in the Gospel according to matthew (our father thou art in heaven) - also Jesus whom you believe to be God too is also in heaven - unless heaven and everywhere is the same to you.....


This is my question for you now fred:

Before God created the universe where was He?

God exists beyond Time and Place.

Before Creation, God existed. He does not need a place or a time in which to exist.

Jewel wrote:Jewel,



What do you mean by in spirit? Your answer is really vague. If God is in heaven, then he is in heaven. So what is that "in spirit" means?



You are roaming around the bush fred. I asked you where was God before He created the universe, and now you said he is everywhere. How can you speak of everywhere when there was no creation in the first place?

1.Uhmmm...do you really don't know the meaning of spirit as in God's spirit?

2. You're actually questoining around the bush jewel. Exactly my answer is He is in Himself and and in His glory before the creation.

Now, can you quantify God?