Is God present in hell as He is in heaven?

Yidda wrote:God exists beyond Time and Place.

Before Creation, God existed. He does not need a place or a time in which to exist.

fredms3 wrote:

1.Uhmmm...do you really don't know the meaning of spirit as in God's spirit?

2. You're actually questoining around the bush jewel. Exactly my answer is He is in Himself and and in His glory before the creation.

Now, can you quantify God?

Jewel wrote:

That's correct yidda. God doesnt need to be contained in any place because before he created the universe He already have existed with out being contained in any place.

I just dont understand why fred cant analyze that hehehhe

look at his answer, he cant even explain it. I was asking where was God before he created universe, he said he was in his glory hehehhe - as if God is contained in his own glory; is glory a place? watta joke

Jewel wrote:

What is that, is God's spirit different or separated from God? God is in heaven but his spirit is everywhere, oh boy, what is that?




Fred, when did God reside in heaven?


[/b]

fredms3 wrote:

1. What? God's spirit separated from God? Is that how you understand it mi amigo. God's spirit separated from Him?

2. Jewel, please answer first my question before i answer yours.

Jewel wrote:

You are now trapped fred hehhee

I asked you where was God before he created the universe, you said he is in his glory hehehe. Is his glory a place to you or what because my question is WHERE not what - so you have no answers here - I think yidda had answered it for you.

Also, I asked you how is it that you said that God is in heaven, while he is present spiritually outside heaven - again no answer - why not?

fredms3 wrote:...Can you quantify God?[/color][/b]

fredms3 wrote:
Uhmmmm...you're confused again Jewel.

'Glory' is not a place when i said God is in His glory ---- Again, you can never contain God.

Yidda just explained to you what is Omnipresence -- you're really confused mi amigo.

I have answered it already. I think you're not reading my post, are you?

Now, can i have the answer to my question:

Can you quantify God?

Jewel wrote:

You see, you are contradicting your words now. You said before that God is in heaven, but now you are saying that you can never contain God - how is that God in heaven yet he can never be contained? I cant see the logic there.

No yidda's answer is not about omnipresence because in the question there was no creation yet, so there is no everywhere to talk about. It actually disproves your belief/claim about omnipresence, because "everywhere" didnt exist before God created everything -

Now, with you question "can you quantify God?" That depends on what you mean by quantify; if you referring God himself then yes because God is one - that's clear, unless you are a polytheist. However, if you are referring to God's attributes, then No, God is infinite and absolute, limitless.

In this thread, we are not talking about God's attributes, we are talking about God's whereabouts "where is God?"

So clarify your contradictory answers above.


Thanks

fredms3 wrote:

You cannot really understand it because you missed the point i'm talking about. When you asked me where is God before creation, my answer was: God is in Himself. He is in His Glory....are we clear on this?

fredms3 wrote:Really? Then let Yidda answer that, to know if she was not really making point on God's Omnipresence.

fredms3 wrote:
Omnipresence is one of God's attribute bro.

fredms3 wrote:
When i say quantify, i mean God's dimension and not about if God is one.

Jewel wrote:

That's really an extremely vague answer because the question is "where" but you're answering "what" - Is Glory a "what" or a where"??

Jewel wrote:

The problem is that you already have assumed that God is omnipresent while we are yet discussing whether or not He is. Omnipresent means present everywhere, but how can He be present everywhere before everywhere existed??

Jewel wrote:

Again presuming without proving it first - that's not the way we settle issues bro.?

Jewel wrote:

Nah, getting more vague. What do you mean by God's dimension?

fredms3 wrote:

"He is in His Glory/Himself" clearly answers a "where" question.

fredms3 wrote:Before everywhere God is in His Glory. Remember God is neither time or space bounded.

fredms3 wrote:I'm proving it to you as well.

fredms3 wrote:
Length, Height and Width, that's what i'm asking from you Jewel.

Jewel wrote:Hello fred, are you still on this topic?

Jewel wrote:

Hehehe; so you are saying here that "God's glory" is a place or location hehehe; are you really serious with this? .

Jewel wrote:

That' it, God is not space bounded, so how could you logically the question "where" is God before he created space? - see?.

Jewel wrote:
-

not proven yet ....

Jewel wrote:

I see, that is what you mean by quantify.

First of all, it depends on your understanding about God because in Islam God is "laysaka mithli shay" there is nothing like Him so Im asking how could the question on "quantify" God possibly arise?

If I'll measure it with the catholic God, then yes, because many people saw Jesus who is your God, about 5'7" in height. The father looks like a big Old man, I dont know how he became old when God is not time bound. I saw their drawings in vatican church.

fredms3 wrote:

That is just to give the picture of where God is before everywhere.

fredms3 wrote:To ask where God is doesn't make it illogical, on the contrary it can be answered logically, and the Bible affirms that.

fredms3 wrote:Not that it's not proven, it's just that you're ignoring the facts.

fredms3 wrote:[color=blue]Therefore Islam agree with me ---- You can never quantify God, as simple as that Jewel.

Ngeek, ang layo naman ng conclusion dun sa premise hehehe

You didnt even clarified the Islamic point whether you are referring to God's attribute or God himself tapos gumawa na kaagad ng conclusion, ewww!


[quote="fredms3"][b]If you believe that Jesus is God then i'l answer your question regarding Jesus.

Jewel wrote:

the point is you cant give a picture to something beyond your imagination hehehe?

Yeah you are right, to ask where God is is not illogical - what is illogical is to ask where God is before he created everything because before everything was created, there was no place/location to talk about in the first place. The "where' question implies a location or place.

fredms3 wrote:Not that it's not proven, it's just that you're ignoring the facts.

That's very emotional reply fred, but emotion wont prove anything in a discussion of this nature. Appealing to your bible despite of being clearly illogical will just prove that the author/s of the bible is/are not very smart.

Remember, your bible has got so many inconsistencies in logic and science, so i think appealing to your bible is not a good idea this time. It also just imply circular reasoning.

Ngeek, ang layo naman ng conclusion dun sa premise hehehe

You didnt even clarified the Islamic point whether you are referring to God's attribute or God himself tapos gumawa na kaagad ng conclusion, ewww!

Oh that's a nice diversion to the topic fred

Your God Jesus was seen as a young boy, growing older, and according to your biblical account killed by his enemies - So that is crystal clear that you can really quantify your God, right?

fredms3 wrote:Exactly because we are all finite and we're talking of Infinite Being

To ask that is not illogical either and no place location/place to talk about precisely because God is neither space nor time bounded.

fredms3 wrote:Not that it's not proven, it's just that you're ignoring the facts.

Emotional lolss? Not at all mi amigo....Rather to ignore the facts presented is the worst emotion in a discussion.

Inconsistencies in the bible? Remember you're giving interpretation on the verse i mentioned on God's Omnipresence as if you have the authority to do it. See your inconsistencies?

Simple lang yan amigo...i-prove mo thru Quran that God is quantified.

No diversion jewel....Our God but not your God right? How can we agree that apple is good if you're eating banana. You have to eat what i'm eating before we can agree on something.

Jewel wrote:

So why do you ask me to give a picture of it? see the illogicality of your question now?

See, it's extremely absurd. It is like me asking you a question - Has your mom been released from prison yes or no?

That's absurd because I already have presumed that your mom has been put to jail in which she was not - so whether your answer is yes or no, both are wrong because the premise of the question is in and of itself wrong - gets mo ba?

So to ask where is God before he created everything is illogical because that presumes that God was on a certain place or location, but how would you think of any location before any place was created?

illogical indeed!

fredms3 wrote:Not that it's not proven, it's just that you're ignoring the facts.

Look who's talking fred. I just said dont appeal to your bible in this point because it is not the arbiter in this philosophical type of discussion; for you to do so would imply circular reasoning (since the bible said it, therefore it must be true).

The problem is that I dont totally agree with your bible because it has many inconsistencies - so how does you appeal to the bible work here?

And no, im not inconsistent about your bible because I agree that there are correct passages in it and there are also incorrect ones.

Before you question my authority to make exegeses of your bible, try to show me first your authority to make exegeses to it - otherwise you are shooting your own foot amigo hehehe

In fact, your bible doesnt say who would make exegeses to itself - so where is the question of authority there? that's ludicrous indeed!

Simple lang din yan amigo, understand first the Quranic concept of God before you make a demand, kasi absurdity and inaabot mo - speaking without correct knowledge.

Ang sabi ni Imam Shafi'ey, "I did not debated any knowledgeable person except that I defeated him, but I did not debated debated any ignorant person except that I always got defeated ( because ignorant people can hardly distinguish right concepts from wrong ones; they merely say anything as they wishes)"

God is one in Islam, strict monotheism - His attributes are absolute and infinite.

well, There is a meeting point. I will ride with your concept of God for the mean time, by then we are eating the same fruit. Your God Jesus was seen by many as a man; he was on earth eat, probably defecated like any other human beings, grown up in body size and knowledge, killed by his enemies, then ascended to heaven - now that is pretty clear that we can quantify your God, cant we?

Or the father who is a super huge old man in heaven according to catholic paintings - no matter how huge, we can still make a picture of it right?
So both the father & son gods can be quantified.

What about the smoky, or "dovy" holy spirit, i think the answer is obviously yes too!

Thanks

fredms3 wrote:I am not asking you a picture, I am showing
you the picture that you can neither comprehend nor quantify God. Very
logical indeed.

Exactly absurd to presume God is on a certain
location before the creation of the universe the fact that you cannot
quantify God. See the failure of your analogy.

The Bible mi amigo.

Lolssssss....How about that. I'm basing
my proofs on the Bible and from there my reasoning. It's your problem if
you don't totally agree with the bible. Remember you're the one
questioning my biblical position on the Omnipresence of God, to disagree
with it, you should provide biblical proof to refute it.

Philosophy is matched with philosophy, now matched my biblical position to refute it.

Well, simple lang yan mi amigo...The
Catholic Church compiled and canonized the books that were inspired by
God. Do i need to elaborate on the issue of exegesis?

Ok. putting it simply ---- As human being yes we can quantify Jesus but His Divine Nature, we can never quantify